Market carnage hits $8.4 trillion

USA Today ^ | 10/8/2002 | Matt Krantz

[ex-Texan]

Investors continue to suffer as stocks hit a multiyear low that has cut the total value of the U.S. market to half its March 2000 peak.

The Dow Jones industrial average, Standard & Poor's 500 and Nasdaq composite are now at their most depressed levels in half a decade. The slide has brought total bear market losses to $8.4 trillion, Wilshire Associates says.

[ex-Texan]

"Aggressive selling by large investors. Big mutual funds are selling into the rallies to make sure they have enough cash to handle redemptions, says Ed Wedbush, CEO of brokerage Wedbush Morgan. The swings are amplified by computerized trading — which triggers selling or buying when stocks hit preset levels, he says...."

Hit the nail on the head.

[blackdog]

Too many Joe Six Packs had too much money. They would not have needed Social Security, Medicare, Prescription Drugs, Housing Programs, and would have been a generation of self reliant seniors. Can't have that now can we? As for too many bulls and not enough bears, the 401K and other such twisted tax game nonsense is just welfare payments to investment bankers and fund managers.

IMHO the home mortgage interest deduction should be scrapped too. Keep that going and it will just blow more hot air into the housing market bubble. Phase it out over a five year period. It will put people into the house they can actually afford.

[xzins]

It wasn't wiped out value....it was
The Clinton Bubble Bursting. In the case of a bubble the "VALUE" isn't real. It's pure speculation.

The dow in 1952 was 270. In 1972 it was 950. Using slope intercept with that trend line, then it should have been at 6943 (7000) in 2002. Anything above that the last few years was pure speculation created by that former lying administration in coordination with stock firms, banks, and the Fed.

[Photo2003]

There are large groups of people selling -- mostly questionable companies and their stocks. There are also large groups of people buying -- being very careful to make sure that they are strong above board profitable companies. In the end, when everything shakes out, we will have a stonger economy than ever, with ethical hard working, above board and profitable companies taking the lead. There will be more jobs than people to fill them. The goal now is to make this country secure and safe, so that we can all enjoy the coming prosperity, and share it with the rest of the world.

[CWRWinger]

the 401K and other such twisted tax game nonsense is just welfare payments to investment bankers and fund managers.

IMO, you've got that one right.

IMHO the home mortgage interest deduction should be scrapped too

IMO, the IRS and the Tax Code should be scrapped.

[FITZ]

It'd be worth it if this would all lead to some real reforms, changing the tax code etc. I think our economy is in serious trouble though if we leave government spending as high as it is, we need to end the socialist programs.

[ravingnutter]

the standstill continued at western U.S. ports;

FYI...from August 16, 2002...and of course, was not covered on network TV...wouldn't want to let the sheeple know what the Dems are REALLY up to...

“Contract, Yes! Government intervention, No!” was the message of the International Longshore and Warehouse Union (ILWU), the AFL-CIO, Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle (D-S.D.) and many mayors at rallies up and down the West Coast, Aug. 12. Thousands took to the streets in protest of a threat by the Bush administration to take over ports militarily in the event that the union decides to strike.

“I’m here because I think you are right on track. The stakes could not be higher,” Daschle said to the Portland, Ore., rally. “I say this administration is wrong, wrong, wrong, and you’ve got every right to fight, fight, fight!” “We will be with you until the last day to see that you get what you deserve,” Daschle said as he pledged that Democrats nationwide would defend the union’s right to strike.

Backing that message were other prominent Congressional Democrats including Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) and Rep. David Wu (D-Ore.), who joined Daschle in Portland; Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.), Reps. Barbara Lee (D-Calif.) and Grace Napolitano (D-Calif.) and House Democratic Whip Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) sent strongly worded messages to the rallies.

Source

[andy_card]

The dow in 1952 was 270. In 1972 it was 950. Using slope intercept with that trend line, then it should have been at 6943 (7000) in 2002. Anything above that the last few years was pure speculation created by that former lying administration in coordination with stock firms, banks, and the Fed.

That's a joke, right? What school of economics demands that the DJIA has to rise linearly? Have you really thought this through? Remind me to short the stock of whatever investment firm you work for.

[wideawake]

This Communist rhetoric is unbearable.

I don't care if you're Bernie Ebbers or Zippy the Lazy Longshoreman - your personal greed for money you haven't earned should not be allowed to injure our nation's economy.

Bring in the scabs!

[xzins]

Nothing demands it. Real new markets in technology would cause the line to advance. We had new, real technologies in the area of adp & com's. However, the range one would expect would still be 7,000 to 8,000.

But, guess what? The CLINTON ERA SPECULATIVE BUBBLE was pricked and "lo and behold" we're EXACTLY where the trend line would have predicted. The trend line (with thoughtful allowance for fluctuation) has been a valid predictor of one's reasonable expection regarding rate of return for years. The good news is that we're either at the bottom or near the bottom. Time to start looking for bargains. People would be much safer with my advisors than with yours. Wisdom is conservatism.

[general_re]

What school of economics demands that the DJIA has to rise linearly? Have you really thought this through?

LOL - isn't the whole "technical analysis" school of investing pretty much based on the notion of drawing lines on a graph with a ruler and insisting that the real world will follow those lines? ;)

[Anti-Bubba182]

http://www.archiviokubrick.it/film/fmj/foto/hartman-platoon.jpg

TAKE BACK THE SENATE!
VOTE OUT THE DEMS!

DONATE TODAY!!!. SUPPORT FREE REPUBLIC

Donate Here By Secure Server

Or mail checks to
FreeRepublic , LLC
PO BOX 9771
FRESNO, CA 93794

or you can use

PayPal at Jimrob@psnw.com
STOP BY AND BUMP THE FUNDRAISER THREAD

[William McKinley]

SUPPORT FREE REPUBLIC

Is Someone Else Carrying Your Water?
	Donate Here By Secure Server Or mail checks to FreeRepublic , LLC PO BOX 9771 FRESNO, CA 93794 or you can use PayPal at Jimrob@psnw.com
STOP BY AND BUMP THE FUNDRAISER THREAD

[ravingnutter]

Sickening isn't it...some on here yesterday were trying to defend the ILWU by stating they were not striking, it was the PMA that locked them out...total BS...the PMA was responding to slowdowns initiated by ILWU...

Shipping lines up and down the West Coast reported widespread ILWU-sponsored work slowdowns, beginning with Thursday’s night shift and extending to today’s morning shift. These actions directly followed a resolution from ILWU headquarters ordering these strike-with-pay actions.

In some cases, the ILWU work actions have ground operations to a halt. In other cases, productivity has plummeted 25 to 90 percent, causing ships to miss their sail times, disrupting rail schedules and leaving valuable cargo idle on the dock.

As a result, the PMA Board of Directors voted unanimously today to implement a defensive shutdown in response to this Union-initiated action. The PMA Board regrets that the Union-initiated slowdowns made this decision necessary.

Source

It gives me the heebeejeebies to visit some of the sites I have had to visit to find this info, but I need to get the word out that the Dems are in collusion with the union to sabotage the economy before the election.

[no-s]

There's more going on than meets the eye.

I suspect the port affair is theatre. You won't find me defending the PMA. Most of the folks who run the facilities are in bed with the democrats. Conversely, it's obvious all the union bashing is pure rhetoric. If the average wage is $22.50/hr, how come all we see are those huge numbers?

Wrap the tinfoil around my ears, I'm starting to wonder if certain persons on FR are more than just credulous....

[andy_card]

However, the range one would expect would still be 7,000 to 8,000.

No, no, no! The DJIA may soar or crash tomorrow, but if it does, it will have done so because of the perceived valuation of 30 large cap stocks, and not to better fit your silly straight-line projection. Markets fluctuate. That's what they do. As a rule, they do not conform to straight lines. Over the past fifty years, the stock markets have trended upwards, but that's only because corporate profits have gradually grown. That trend could end overnight if another paradigm - like a depression - were to take over. The determining factor is confidence in US securities markets, which in turn is largely dependent on corporate profits and profit trends. Historical trends are utterly meaningless.

Wisdom is conservatism.

Thank you sir, for your generous pearls of wisdom.

[ravingnutter]

I am not defending PMA, I am not union bashing, I have no dog in this fight with the exception of the impact on the economy, but those that have stated on this forum the ILWU is a victim of the PMA need to wake up...as much as the ILWU denies the slowdowns, they are happening with the endorsment of the ILWU under the guise of "safety"...

Union members’ quotes in recent news reports confirm that slowdowns are a practice of the ILWU. Said Jay Luera, Secretary-Treasurer of ILWU Local 13, in the Los Angeles Times (9/21/2002):

“A slowdown is when you go to work and work slowly. You work to the safety contract. You follow the posted speed limit of 10 miles an hour. You don't work overtime. Maybe everybody takes their lunch at the same time."

Specific Examples of Slowdowns and Link to above quote from ILWU Action Chronology

My only reason for posting the information I have is that I am trying to connect the dots between the ILWU union foot dragging and the Dem's desire to sabotage the economy. Heck, the PMA, as you pointed out, could be in collusion as well. Just seems funny to me that the main stream media has not reported Daschle's (and Jesse Jackson's) involvement in this whole debacle, when normally they will cover him if he merely sneezes. Daschle even called the media before his insane rant in Congress against Bush. Something stinks here...I think it's a 'Rat named Daschle.

[andy_card]

LOL - isn't the whole "technical analysis" school of investing pretty much based on the notion of drawing lines on a graph with a ruler and insisting that the real world will follow those lines? ;)

You mean like "last year, Amazon.com was trading at $20/share. Today, its trading at $400/share. Given that trend, in ten years either its got to trade at either $3820/share, if you go for that linear projection crap, or $400,000,000,000,000,000,000/share (yes that's $400 Quintillion) if you follow the more reasonable geometric projection."

Either way we're bound to be rich, rich, rich!!! Now imagine what you could buy with $400 quintillion...

[xzins]

Do you deny the Clinton bubble?

Do you deny the location of the market? And do you deny the real value growth of your 30 large companies?

It will bottom in the neighborhood of the line of growth and real growth in the future will be in concert with that historic trend line.

Wisdom is conservative.