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To: MortMan
It is not the patina of legitimacy, the child is legitimate, because that is based in law, not biology.

Yes, it is tragic and enraging, but if you allow biology to take precedence over law, then you weaken marriage and destabilize the family bonds of all legal children.

To paraphrase Spock from whichever movie "It is better that the one should suffer, than the many"

This isn't just a problem of individuals, marriage is a social institution and the basic building block of the family, the foundation of society, culture and nations.

If we keep diluting the the legal protections and priviledges of marriage, we will completely dissolve the foundation of traditional legal families.

This will usher in the liberal dream of defining the family as "persons of any gender or sexual orientation, related or unrelated, living together in love and commitment to themselves and each other".

Please, I don't want to live there. This Paternity Fraud Movement seeks to undermine marriage and legitimate children in the name of biology and fairness. They are wrong.
16 posted on 10/03/2002 8:26:45 AM PDT by Valpal1
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To: Valpal1
I'm afraid you missed the subtler side of my point: It is the patina of legitimacy because it is achieved fraudulently. In my opinion, allowing the situation to stand as-is is itself a dilution of the legal protection of marriage. After all, the situation under discussion is analogous to filing fraudulent welfare claims.

I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree that punishing wrongdoing (fraud) will usher in any type of liberal Utopia. Nor does it undermine marriage. What undermines marriage is the ability of one spouse (the wife) to force the other to pay for the results of her dalliance with another man. The wife is rewarded for dishonesty.

I'd also like to point out that there are myriad examples of high-salaried moms garnering 40-70% of the lower-salaried dad's monthly income for child support, despite there being little or no evidence of the mom's actually expending said money on the kid(s). My brother-in-law is one such case (she makes four or five times as much as he does). While this point is tangential to the original argument, it bears insertion to show that the fraud side of the line is just one issue amongst many that are stacked against fathers.

BTW - I will be married for 14 years come August, with 3 kids. Our goal is at least 50.:-)

18 posted on 10/03/2002 10:31:10 AM PDT by MortMan
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To: Valpal1
To paraphrase Spock from whichever movie "It is better that the one should suffer, than the many"

And that's well and fine to the industry...just as long as it's "Dad" who does the suffering. I look poorly upon men who won't acknowledge or provide for the children the he fathers. But I take an even dimmer view of women who trick a man into raising and supporting a child that she conceived with some other guy.

And don't get me started on the "it will harm the child" unless dad is the one who gets stuck with the all of the responsibility and almost none of the rights and/or privilliages associated with fatherhood. Guess what...the kid in that situation has already been screwed over. So has the father. But take a look at the one party in this mess who not only gets off without so much as a slap on the wrist. That's right! It's mom! Not only does she get custody by default, but she's going to get a large, tax-free portion of the income of the the man's pre-tax income that she legally is allowed to hose-over. "But what about the children?!" Divorce is an ugly business. It used to be that a divorce screwed over everyone involved, but the industry has seen to it that now only dad gets the shaft. Do you want to cut down on the divorce rate? I mean do you REALLY want to cut it? Take out the automatic "Dad-gets-screwed" laws (and the judges who ignore the other laws that actually afford him some rights). When one person is not automatically designated (by virtue of having a dominant Y chromazome and nothing else) as the punching bag in court and maybe the 70% of divorces filed by women will drop to a resonable level. And if the mother commited a fraud by tricking her husband into believing that he sired someone elses child gets caught, let her and everyone else (yes, even "the child") suffer the consequences. Chances are, if mom didn't shut her ex-husband out of the kid's life, the man who finds out that the child he thought was his for 10 or 15 years is not, will most likely stay involved and support that child.

I'm sick and tired of these base, vendictive and greedy women being allowed to wreck the lives of her husband and children and then hides behind those children to keep from being held responsible for their own misdeeds.

19 posted on 10/03/2002 1:02:52 PM PDT by Orangedog
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