But how does your suggestion that Jefferson formed an alliance against the Barbary Pirates (who were raiding American shipping) have anything to do with the founders' warnings against a standing army, and avoiding foreign entanglements?
No one has suggested that the defense of rights is a bad thing.
But how does your suggestion that Jefferson formed an alliance against the Barbary Pirates (who were raiding American shipping) have anything to do with the founders' warnings against a standing army, and avoiding foreign entanglements?
No one has suggested that the defense of rights is a bad thing.
First of all, it was not “my suggestion” that Jefferson tried to form an alliance. What I posted were Jefferson’s own account of the matter as found in his autobiography. Secondly, a very minor point, Jefferson did not actually succeed in forming the alliance, as he explained in the quotes I posted, although not from lack of trying.
Now let’s address this entire matter of what the Founding Fathers said or did not say and what the Founding Fathers warned about or did not warn about.
The Founding Fathers were not Gods. The Founding Fathers were Men.
Every opinion that was uttered by a Founding Father, be it Washington or Jefferson, was not The Word of God. Such opinions or advice were the opinions and advice of Men, albeit a Great Men.
Most importantly, they were the opinions of “Men of their Time” with all that implies.
The following is also the statement of George Washington himself taken from an extant letter Washington wrote in 1766:
"Sir: With this letter comes a Negro (Tom) which I beg the favour of you to sell, in any of the Islands you may go to, for whatever he will fetch, and bring me in return for him: one hogshead of best molasses, one of best Rum, one barrel of Lymes if good and cheap, … and the residue, much or little in good ole spirits…That this Fellow is both a rogue and a Runaway…I shall not pretend to deny. But . . . he is exceedingly healthy, strong and good at the Hoe… which gives me reason to hope he may, with your good management sell well (if kept clean and trim'd up a little when offered for sale… I must beg the favor of you (lest he should attempt his escape) to keep him hand-cuffed till you get to Sea."
The Founding Father, in the Constitutional Convention, also wrote and adopted the Constitutional provision that representation include three fifths of “other Persons”, in other words, Slaves.
Today, such statements and such notions are as outdated as a Brown Bess musket.
That does not mean, nor does it follow, that everything else the Founding Fathers said or wrote is out of date or invalid. It simply means that as the statements and writings of such Men must be taken in the context of their Time, Place and Circumstances. It means that, as Time, Place and Circumstances change, the wisdom of those statements and writings must be periodically reconsidered.
The predicament of how to deal with the question of the dangers to a society of having or not having a standing army or the issue of alliances was not a question that suddenly arose in 18th Century America.
Such issues have been struggled with by Western Civilization since the days of Antiquity.
From Sparta to Athens to Melos to Messana, to the Roman Republic to the Roman Empire, etc., etc., the Catch-22 issue of how a society can defend itself and survive in a dangerous world crawling with foreign enemies while not creating the seeds of it’s own enslavement by it’s own defenders has been grappled with, with varying degrees of success, throughout Western History.
Historical examples abound with societies, such as Melos, literally wiped off the face of the Earth and other societies, such as the Roman Republic at the time of Cicero, enslaved by their own Army, to support each side of the argument of whether Standing Army versus No Standing Army is the Correct Way.
As with most thing in life, the answer is “neither extreme” and the resulting compromise is a dangerous balancing act that can turn deadly with a single false move.
The analysis of these historical examples is quite fascinating and educational. Unfortunately, we must discuss them at a later time, if you are interested, as the time of the morning has arrived when I must go off to support the wife and kids and the Internal Revenue Service.
Ping to Travis as he enjoys historical discussions.
FreeRegards,
Polybius