Posted on 09/23/2002 12:47:24 PM PDT by SLB
CHEYENNE – Spare the rod and spoil the child?
Not so, childhood experts say. Their version: Spare the rod to promote positive, effective discipline and prevent violent behavior by children.
“I really can’t say spanking is ever a good thing to do,” said Sherri Rubeck, who teaches common-sense parenting for Southeast Wyoming Mental Health.
“Spanking is just teaching a child another form of violence,” she said. “Kids are learning that it’s OK to hit. Mom and Dad do it, so it’s OK to hit someone to get what I want.”
Ronn Jeffrey, director of Youth Alternatives, said, “Spanking is something adults do when they can’t think of anything else to do. It’s a form of negative reinforcement. Spanking just proves you’re bigger and stronger.
“It is not usually done out of a great deal of thought about changing a child’s behavior,” he added. “It’s done more out of frustration or anger and has only a temporary effect. With other forms of punishment, you have to think about what you’re doing.”
But single parent Johnny Jones said he believes spanking can be effective in disciplining younger children when used appropriately.
Jones leads a single-parenting group in Cheyenne, in which single and divorced parents meet to help each other cope with parental challenges.
Jones said he thinks it is appropriate to give young children a light slap on the hand or the bottom when they are doing something that could harm them, such as playing with outlets or running into the street.
He also has used a spanking as a backup when two or three attempts at another form of discipline don’t work.
“I don’t have half the problems or concerns (with his children’s behavior) that other parents have who do not now, nor have they ever, spanked their children,” he said. “They have problems at home and school.”
Jones said he does not believe spanking, when used appropriately, contributes to violent behavior in children.
“When I grew up, and before then, spanking was recommended,” he said. “The way children acted then, compared to the behaviors we have now, is completely night and day. We didn’t have the school violence and shootings we do now.
“Alternative forms of discipline don’t always work,” he added. “I believe that contributes to a lot of the problems we have. Look at our society, look at newspapers, what’s happening at school. Talk to a teacher who is about to retire about the differences in behavior (when spanking was used to discipline students) as opposed to students now.”
Laramie County School District 1 Superintendent Dan Stephan said the LCSD1 board revoked corporal punishment, including spanking, in 1984.
“Educationally, that is sound judgment,” he said. “Our board decided clear back then that it was not prudent behavior to use that as punishment. There are other methods to discipline students.
“If we have behavior that is not appropriate by a student, we will work with the parents and the student in regard to what the desired behavior would be … rather than modeling something that is probably less than productive.”
But Dwayne Trembly, who taught math at McCormick Junior High for years before retiring in 1998, agreed with Jones.
When spanking was revoked in the district, “We saw an immediate change with lack of discipline,” he said. “We’ve been struggling ever since.
“Appropriate spanking promotes discipline – with heavy emphasis on appropriate. That is the key word,” he added.
Trembly said what happens after the spanking is more important than the spanking itself.
“When a child needs discipline, it needs to be immediate, then they need a positive build-up afterward. Leave them in a positive state. Never leave them down. If you do that, you lose discipline.”
Jones also urged caution regarding the way spankings are delivered.
“I think (spanking) instills a line of respect in moderation – but I can’t stress enough in moderation,” he said. “Everything does not merit a spanking.
“A spanking should be done with an open hand on the behind, not a slap in the face.
“I don’t believe in using foreign objects, such as belts, switches, spoons and so forth. (With those) you do not know how much force you’re delivering. If you can’t do it with your hand because it’s hurting your hand, imagine how it feels to that child.”
If used inappropriately or excessively, spanking could cause children to become introverted out of fear of being struck, Jones said.
Spanking should decline and eventually end as a child gets older, he said.
“Once they get beyond 10 or 11, that child is pretty much set in their ways,” he said. “They are either going to continue on in their behavior, or they already know the consequences of their behavior.”
As children approach their teenage years, other deterrents, such as taking away television or computer privileges, work better, Jones said.
“My daughter has told me several times that she wished I would spank her as opposed to taking away her telephone,” he said.
Jeffrey said he understands that some parents feel the need to use spanking as a form of punishment.
“I’m not going to condemn every parent who has ever spanked a child,” he said. “A parent who believes in spanking is not a terrible person.
“Was I spanked? Yeah. Were most of us? Probably. But I will tell you it should be the last line of discipline. The hand should be used, and it should be on the bottom. It should never be done with any object.”
Jeffrey referred to last week’s televised videotape of a young woman who put her daughter in a van and began spanking her. The spankings quickly escalated to what appeared to be a brutal beating.
“That is an indication that the person doing the spanking is usually out of control,” he said.
Jeffrey cited other problems with using spanking as a primary disciplinary measure.
“If you use physical ways of controlling your children, what happens when your kid gets bigger than you? If that’s the only method you’ve developed to control their behavior, you’re kind of in bad shape.”
Rubeck said parents need to retrain themselves to use more positive ways to discipline their children. That can be accomplished by taking a parenting class or reading good how-to books on changing children’s behavior.
Some good disciplinary methods include time-out, praising children when they do something good and revoking privileges as a consequence of bad behavior, Rubeck said.
When working with children, parents need to give “kid reasons” as incentive to behave, she added.
“Instead of saying, ‘You need to go to bed on time because Mom’s really tired and needs some rest, find a kid reason,” Rubeck said. “A kid isn’t going to care if Mom is tired. A kid reason would be, ‘If you go to bed early tonight, maybe you can earn a reward for the weekend, such as inviting a friend over.’”
It also is helpful to involve the children in the process when deciding what their punishment should be.
“If you let the child set the consequences, they’ll usually make the punishment worse than that parent would. Maybe that’s an indication that we need to be nicer, if they feel they’re deserving of such terrible punishment.”
Some children may never need much, if any spanking. If you are speaking of your experience with a single four year old, I'd suggest that your experience is very narrow.
What you can do with one may not work as well with four. But you may not be able to see that. Yet.
I don't like your tone and the fact that you chose to address this without my attention. Was this a simple oversight or do you have a courage deficit?
"Liking" to spank isn't the issue and I really, really find it offensive that you would imply that I enjoy hitting children. I don't "like" grounding children, or "like" making them drop out of a team sport for low academics either, but I have done those things as well.
Since your whole experience seems to be with a single child, I'll suggest that you have only a very narrow and limited view of parenting. My youngest is twice as old as yours. I suspect that if I hadn't spanked when they were young, I'd have more troubles now that I've got four teens.
But maybe I should yield to your whole seven years of wisdom.
Yep--we were taught to --get this--courtsy or bow when being introduced to adults for the first time!!! LOL!
Good for you. It doesn't always work out that way. As a doc, you should also know that little boys and little girls, especially when they are part of a group of children, don't behave the same way, not to say that boys all behave the same way either, of course.
Toddlers can be reasoned with, on their own level. Ours understood the simple choice between obedience and disobedience.
Time outs work for him now but there was a time when he would misbehave, look at me, at say, "give me a time out". After one incident where he kept returning to a "time out" for a total of 1 hour and 1/2 I determined the "swat" was a better deterant.
He has a little boy friend who is so mild he never gets into trouble and a little girl friend whose parent's are all talk and no action. Then they can't figure out why no one wants their daughter at their house. She blows you off now matter what you say.
Another stupid suggestion from the idiot left. Teach your kids that unless they get something, they don't need to behave. That turns them into adults who won't do anything unless they are going to "get theirs".
My son is 7 and I have used spanking since he was in diapers. It is very rarely necessary. Of course when they are toddlers, the level of force required is just slightly more than a touch. A lot of it is the shock factor not pain factor. Simply being physically in control and visibly angry is enough to let the child know that it is time to behave. As my son has gotten older his spankings have decreased dramatically, and now, I don't really remember the exact last time he was spanked. I simply tell him to do something, and he does it.
Occassionally he will complain or argue. The first thing is to explain the situation logically in a manner the child understands. 90% of the time, that is all it takes. Even when the child wants something, they also want to please their parents and behave. It is only when they can't reconcile these 2 desires that problems arise. Once a child has learned discipline in their earliest years, the remaining 10% of the time can usually be overcome with a simple look.
My wife's friend has 2 boys my sons age, one 2 weeks difference, one a year younger. When they were smaller they used to come to our house for visits, and I used to let my son go there. Their mother uses the "please be nice or I'll say please be nice again" method of lefty discipline. Unfortunately, the kids have degenerated into literal monsters. I no longer allow them in my house, nor is my son allowed to visit them. The last time they came, they were so horrible, my son was totally uncomfortable. He couldn't figure out why they were acting so bad and he was visibly upset. It is sad that my son has lost 2 friends, but it is trageic that those 2 boys will grow up to be the worst kind of men you'll ever meet.
Spanking causes children to act out in violent ways.
Spanking as an accepted form of discipline/punishment has been seen in an every increasingly negative way since the late 60's.
Spanking by Parents and schools has decreased severly due to societal views becoming increasingly negative.
Today's children are much less violent and much better well-behaved than children who grew up while being spanked.
Oops, that arguement doesn't wash.
Let's try another.
Today's children are much more willing to accept the authority of a teacher and are much better students.
Oops, that arguement doesn't wash.
Let's try another.
Today's children are better socially adjusted and mature.
Yeah, that's it!
Wait, maybe it's because we pump them full of Ritalin and other such drugs.
So in conlclusion, while a pat on the bottom in anathema, pumping your child full of psychotropic drugs is a perfectly healthy way to modify your child's behavior.
Makes sense to me.
Obviously you are among those that don't understand the difference between spanking and beating.
You had one child and defered taking her to a restaurant due to her behavior.
I had four kids and took them to restaurants and taught them proper behavior. When you have four small children at one table, silliness can get out of hand quickly. A quick swat on the back of the hand with a chop stick gets their attention quickly, lets them know that they are out of line, and does no harm to the child.
However, since you stayed out of restaurants due to the poor behavior of your single child and I didn't have to with my four kids, I should listen to you? BTW, after a short while, my kids got so used to adults coming over to the table and complimenting their behavior that they began to behave themselves and not need the hand swats.
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