A Nation of Informers

New York Times ^ | 9/23/02 | ADAM LIPTAK

[kattracks]

HAT should Eunice Stone have done?

As she was having breakfast at a Shoney's restaurant in Calhoun, Ga., one day earlier this month, she said she overheard a conversation among the three men in the next booth that alarmed her.

So Ms. Stone, a nurse from Cartersville, Ga., called the police and said that she heard the men discussing terrorism plans. As a consequence, law enforcement officials closed down the Interstate highway known as Alligator Alley and detained the men for the better part of a day. The men, who were Muslim medical students on their way to a hospital in Miami, endured a thorough search of their cars for explosives and intense public scrutiny before they were released.

Ms. Stone has been praised for her alertness as well as criticized for what civil-liberties advocates said was paranoia. She has hired lawyers. Yet Ms. Stone was clearly heeding the call of government officials, from President Bush on down, who have asked citizens to be vigilant and report anything suspicious.

It is hard to know how to calculate the costs and benefits of encouraging tips like that of Ms. Stone's, said Cass R. Sunstein, a law professor at the University of Chicago.

"There are two things to balance," he said. "One is the likelihood that you'll get good information that will prevent harm. The other is that you will get people in trouble who don't deserve to be or that you will create a culture of surveillance."

It is not difficult to identify in hindsight tips that should have been made but were not. After Sept. 11, 2001, for instance, a federal Department of Agriculture official in Florida was criticized for failing to report a charged encounter in 2000 with Mohamed Atta, believed to be the ringleader of the terrorist attacks. Other people came forward after Sept. 11 with stories about disturbing encounters with the hijackers that they did not report.

Last week, after the arrests of six Arab-American men from Lackawanna, N.Y., who are accused of being members of a Qaeda cell, New York state established a toll-free hotline for reporting suspicious activity. Information from within the Yemeni community in Lackawanna seems to have played a role in the arrests.

James McMahon, the superintendent of the New York State Police, said people should err on the side of passing along information, even if it is based only on "instincts and intuition."

But is it possible to be too vigilant? Does the flood of resulting tips obscure or even reduce, as the boy who cried wolf learned, the truly valuable information?

Even Gov. George E. Pataki sounded a little wary about the hotline when he announced it, asking people to use it "responsibly and with common sense."

Civil libertarians said that may be asking too much of the public.

"We will find ourselves falling into anarchy if we ask ordinary people to play the role that only law enforcement officials can play properly," said Anthony D. Romero, the executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union.

But others say such comments exaggerate and overreach.

"Informing in a country where thought crimes are criminal is one thing," said Charles Fried, a law professor at Harvard. "Informing in a country where the only crimes are menaces to public security in a physical sense is very different."

Mr. Sunstein said there was no need for alarmism. "I think our culture is strong enough that the likelihood that this will create serious problems for our freedom is very low,"` he said.

Those upon whom suspicion is cast have little legal recourse. It is permissible to contact the authorities with leads based on misunderstandings or ill-founded suspicions.

Various legal claims may be available in theory, experts said, among them defamation, infliction of emotional distress and malicious prosecution. But they are not likely to succeed. In most states and in most situations, plaintiffs must prove not only that the tip was false but that the informer knew or suspected that at the time and meant to harm the subject of the tip.

In the current environment, said Prof. Rodney A. Smolla of the University of Richmond School of Law, "there is not much realistic exposure to liability, though it would depend on the pointedness of the tip." A purposefully false accusation of training pilots for terror missions, he said, might be treated differently from the voicing of more generalized suspicions.

It gets more complicated when suspicions result in fights and imprisonment, as in the case of two men of Indian descent who were jailed in Arkansas earlier this month after a Northwest Airlines flight attendant grew concerned about their trips to the airplane bathroom. They may be able to sue the airline and the government for malicious prosecution or false imprisonment.

"It all turns on the question of probable cause," said Richard D. Emery, a civil rights lawyer.

Ibrahim Hooper, a spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations, said untrained civilians are more likely to engage in racial stereotyping.

"There is a real chill in the Muslim community about what will be taken as an innocent comment," Mr. Hooper said.

And not all tips are made in good faith, he said.

"We've had reports of cases where people use tips as payback on the job," Mr. Hooper said. "We see it in custody cases, where people make all kinds of allegations against others if they're Muslims."

But false accusations are a part of law enforcement, Mr. McMahon said, and that is where police investigative skills come in. "Whether it comes in as a tip, a 911 call or over a seven-digit number, you're going to get false reports," he said.

If there are to be errors, Mr. McMahon said, they should be on the side of too much information.

"There are probably going to be a lot of tips that come in baseless," he said. "I'd rather hear about it."

[CWOJackson]

There are some things reasonable, sane people just don't do.

A black man doesn't go into a white cowboy bar and yell out, "Where's the white women?"

A white man doesn't go into a Detroit R&B club and yell out, "Get it on Homey."

And three people of Arab decent shouldn't walk into a diner and suggest they are terrorists. If these three had wanted to have a private conversation they could have spoken in their original language. No, they wanted to bait the redneck lady.

They are lucky they are still alive... She did the right thing.

[Jeff Chandler]

What should Eunice Stone have done?

WWED? (What would Eunice Do?)

[Jeff Chandler]

...I reserve the right to joke about anything in a hamburger joint ...

It is wise to be circumspect with your speech around people who are preparing your food.

[Jeff Chandler]

Those guys have the right to say anything they want, but they should be prepared to suffer the consequenses of being a$$40les.

[DentsRun]

She said, and it was reported IN PRINT, far more times, than anything her son said. BTW, the media reported so much , that was erronious / inaccurate, that you have NO idea what was said / happened.

Did you read the quote from her son? Apparently not, which means you you have no standing to complain about inaccurcies. As for the skullcap/headdress issue which you seem to think is so important, I saw two photographs of the trio. In one of them the heavily bearded man was sitting in the center wearing a full turban(?) of the sort that is wrapped in such a way that it has a V in the front. In another photo (apparently from a TV appearance) I saw him wearing a skullcap, like an oversize yarmulke. Neither one, in my opinion, should be enough to send American citizens into a panic.

As for Freepers being fair objective observers of the passing scene, I only wish that all of them were. After it was reported that the one car did NOT blow through the toll gate without paying the charge, some people here were clearly disappointed. They wanted the Muslims to be guilty of something, even if it wasn't terrorism. If that's not bigotry, I don't know what else you call it. We certainly label it bigotry when people treat blacks and jews that way.

[nopardons]

Of course Eunice Stone did the right thing ! Unfortunatelly, there are some supposed Conservatives, here, who not only dishonor FR, they dishonor being called Americans. They don't know the facts, but what does that matter ... as long as they can type all manner of garbage.

During WW II, people stood on roofs, to watch for enemy plans. They were to alert the proper people, if they saw any. They were also supposed to report any suspicious activities and conversations. THey did so, without any childish worry about their " losing their freedonm ". Why is this situation different ? Why can't some posters see and understand that it is unwise and unsafe to assume that what they ( or others ) might see and / or hear is just a joke ?

And we wonder why the Muslim communities haven't reported what they know about sleeper cells ? If people here, don't care, I guess they shouldn't either. It's not, after all, as though Muslims didn't DIE at the murderous hands of terrorists, on 9/ 11.

[John Lenin]

Listen moron, who the hell cares what her son said, she did the right thing, had it been me, I would have pulled out a baseball bat and held the three slimeballs at bay waiting for the cops to come.

[demkicker]

"No, I wasn't there and neither were you. I'm relying on press accounts which widely (and repeatedly) reported that the nurse's son said (to the best of my memory), "mom, they're just fooling (or joking) with you."

Pardon me, but I DON'T trust your memory. I've read dozens of stories about this topic and have yet to see even one quote by the son stating that he was convinced the men were joking. I do remember reports of him getting their license plate numbers from their cars.

Besides, your carping about Eunice and trying to make her into a bigot is going nowhere. You're the one with blinders on, bubba.

[DentsRun]

How much are the Saudis paying you ?

I wish someone would pay me something but that begs the larger question--how much is the KKK paying you?

[DentsRun]

Besides, your carping about Eunice and trying to make her into a bigot is going nowhere. You're the one with blinders on, bubba.

The nurse has an over-excitable imagination or can't tell joking from reality. The real bigots are the ones (including some here on free republic) who want to throw all Muslims out of America and nuke Baghdad.

[CWOJackson]

Simply a good argument for expanded conceal carry laws.

I'm not going to get into the issue of Japanese American internment...however, can you image if this had been Dec 8th, 1941, in a hamburger joint anywhere in America, and these had been three Japanese American's making a joke?

When you think about it, the situation isn't much different.

[DentsRun]

Listen moron, who the hell cares what her son said

Well, lots of people care, given that her son was the voice of common sense and furthermore he was right.

, she did the right thing, had it been me, I would have pulled out a baseball bat and held the three slimeballs at bay waiting for the cops to come.

I'm sure you would have. And that's the problem with some of people here on Free Republic--they hate everyone who's not like them.

[nopardons]

I read the son's supposed comments. I also heard Eunice, not once, but several times, say that her son had said that it might be just a hoax. Not a " joke ", a " hoax ".

I never saw the bearded jerk wear a turban. I saw his picture in several different newspapers ( i don't read only one ), as well as on T.V. and posted pictures on FR. It is, as I said, NO crime to stare at someone. Since Mrs. Stone has Palestinian relatives, I doubt that she was fixated on the headgear.

Apparently, you don't know many facts about this incident, you don't have any idea what I reply to you now, nor what I have been writing for four years, all over FR, but you love to make blanket statements, impugn people ( so that YOU might then look good ? ), and enjoy making things up.

Just a factoid, which might give you some pause, dear... the kind of turban, that you so vivedly described, is ONLY worn by Seiks. It is part of their religious apparel. It is significantly different from what OBL and the Taliban wear. it is NOTHING, whatsoever, like Arabs wear. The ONLY man, who woore headcovering, was the ARAB . The Pakisanis wore NO head covering and since all three are Muslims, they wouldn't be caught dead, wearing such a thing.

Wanna try again, oh factually ill informed and delusional person ?

[demkicker]

"The nurse has an over-excitable imagination or can't tell joking from reality. The real bigots are the ones (including some here on free republic) who want to throw all Muslims out of America and nuke Baghdad."

Go soak your messed up head. You sound like a broken record repeating the same nonsense. You refuse to add anything new to the debate and are making false accusations against a brave woman.

[nopardons]

" And that's the problem with some people here on FRee-Republic--they hate everyone who's not like them ."

Now we all know what your problem is; you hate everyone who doesn't think ( and I use that word loosely )exactly as you do! Thanks for sharing. :-)

[John Lenin]

And that's the problem with some of people here on Free Republic--they hate everyone

Is your brain stuck in a loop ? You have accused everyone who doesn't go along with your way of thinking of being a hater or a bigot. Are you on some kind of drugs ?

[DentsRun]

I read the son's supposed comments. I also heard Eunice, not once, but several times, say that her son had said that it might be just a hoax. Not a " joke ", a " hoax ".

According to the Christian Science Monitor, her son was a lot more dubious than that, saying "Oh Mama, they're just messing with you."

It is, as I said, NO crime to stare at someone.

And it's also no crime to say whatever you want to other people at your table in a public coffee shop. If Bin Laden turns us into a nation of informers because of 9-11, he's done far more damage to us than he ever dreamed.

[DentsRun]

Now we all know what your problem is; you hate everyone who doesn't think ( and I use that word loosely )exactly as you do! Thanks for sharing. :-)

What I hate is people who don't think at all, as for instance when people here call for killing all Arabs or nuking Bahgdad.

[DentsRun]

Is your brain stuck in a loop ? You have accused everyone who doesn't go along with your way of thinking of being a hater or a bigot. Are you on some kind of drugs?

I just get tired of people here posting messages calling for all Muslims to be killed or expelled or to "nuke Baghdad" (which seems insane given than the president's stated purpose is to free Iraqis from Hussein, not incinerate them with him.)

[DentsRun]

You refuse to add anything new to the debate and are making false accusations against a brave woman.

It's not false to say that her son told his mother, "Oh, mama, they're just messing with you." And I don't know how brave you have to be to inform on someone after they left the restaurant.