And the contracters don't often speak highly of their customers either, when the customers are not around that is. I've been on both sides of that dance, and they are both right and both wrong. Some of the sterotypes of both sides are correct. But then again, I picked up some of the sterotypes held by the contracters when I was on the military side of things, both active and later reserve. I also observed some of the things the military and presumably NASA, complain about relative to the contracters. Now I work for a non-profit that is somewhere in the middle, although technically still a contracter, but much closer to the military than the Lockeeds, Boeings and Raytheons of the world.