New armed forces scandals revisit the question of why women are in them

The Report ^ | Kevin Michael Grace

[Jeff Gordon]

I have also been searching the Internet for information about Cornum treatment. I found several sites that quoted from the President's Commission saying she had been digitally violated vaginally and anally. She was not raped because the guard could not get her flight suit off over her broken arms.

I found this site cached by Google. It has a pretty complete report of both Cornum's and Rathbun-Nealy's experiences while in captivity. While this site clearly has an agenda, it also has a pretty interesting analysis of women in the military.

[weikel]

Bismarck said this about the peacetime British army he was refering to their size not their quality. I believe the actual quote was if the British Amry landed in Bremerhaven he'd send the city police force to arrest them.

[weikel]

You can't be a feminist without being a liberal. The natural order, evolution, god whatever you want to call it arranged things in such a way that things work best when women are assisting, aiding, complementing men etc but not trying to compete or be equal with them. Women have a valid role in their traditional jobs in the military and in everything else but with very very very few exceptions most women should stick to them.

[rmmcdaniell]

I didn't realize Canada still had any military forces.....

Well not much anyway.

[SkyPilot]

Canadians shed blood along with Americans on the beaches of France, and in a hundred other places.

I see point in denigrating these wonderful allies.

[Born on the Storm King]

Are men who never serve in the military or who never see combat "not equal" with men who have?

This is a very good question, Lorianne. I am a war veteran, and I lived 3 1/2 years behind the Iron Curtain serving in the US Army Berlin Brigade. But do you see my semantical trick? I am a war veteran but I am not a combat veteran! I spent plenty of years in combat training but I was never in combat. And, yes, I consider a combat veteran a notch higher than I am even though I spent years a policeman! I thank God every day I never had to use that crapola women's rifle, the M16 in combat---(Whoops, here I go!)

Of course I have met many admirable men and women in the civilian world. I say to myself, "This person is very fortunate that he nor she never had to go through basic training nor combat for that matter because this person is quite a mature individual." Then there are other civilians who are such whiners I'd like to throw them into a war zone.

As far as military men who never saw combat, read Anton Myrer's Once an Eagle. I believe Myrer adequately addresses the question of annoying bureaucrat types in the Armed Forces.

As far as addressing females in the Armed Forces, I commend batboy's argumentation. I don't think we're gonna lose a war but I'm sorry to say that we may lose a battle or get nailed in some major incident because of this feminist poppycock and balderdash.

[PayrollOffice]

The rights body ruled that complete integration must be accomplished in all service roles, except for submarines, within 10 years.

No submarines, no equality!

[A. Pole]

What does a non-liberal feminist believe or not believe that a liberal feminist believes (or doesn't believe)?

Hmm, let me guess. That abortion is a murder and that the most noble vocation is to be a mother?

[Trickyguy]

I was never in the military, but one of my friends who was,
for years, told me that most of the women in the military were "either sluts or lesbians." If that's true, it's a
recipe for disaster.

[rmmcdaniell]

Canadians shed blood along with Americans on the beaches of France, and in a hundred other places.

I see point in denigrating these wonderful allies.

Oh please! Get a sense of humor will you. Your just as bad as the politically correct crowd that gets offended at every pierceved slight.

[Lorianne]

Telling people what they can and can't do is top down authoritarianism. It is anti-freedom and anti-American.

Setting standards and allowing anyone and everyone the opportunity to compete to meet them is the American way.

I don't happen to believe most women are suited to combat. However, some may be. Also, the nature of "combat" may change in coming years which may have an impact. Nevertheless, objective standards are fair. Irrational authoritarianism is not.

Also combat does not equal military service. As I've mentioned countless times only a very small percentage of those in the military will ever serve in combat. A small percentage will ever be asked to serve in combat. In the meantime, the military had beaucoup jobs that have to get done. With a volunteer system, its simply stupid to turn away qualified people who will be an asset to your organization. If the military is having a hard time finding qualified people (which it is) then they need to change their hiring and screening practices, just as any other organization which wants to succeed has to do. Arbitrarily cutting out half your potential work force is foolhardy and dangerous.

Not everyone who volunteers for military service does it out of a sense of patriotism, but many do, including women. In a time of war and with a volunteer service, we're shooting ourselves in the foot by bad mouthing patriotic citizens who want to serve their country.

Oh and by the way, there are many conservative feminists. You need to educate yourself.

[Lorianne]

Do males who get STD's get kicked out of the military?

[Lorianne]

I've never heard of a non-liberal feminist. What does a non-liberal feminist believe or not believe that a liberal feminist believesI've never heard of a non-liberal feminist. What does a non-liberal feminist believe or not believe that a liberal feminist believes (or doesn't believe)?

Conservative feminists believe in many conservative things for example: the sanctity of free speech, personal responsibility, free and open markets, individualism over collectivism, less taxation, equality and justice for all. In addtiion many are pro-Life. Conservative feminists are pro-Family but believe individual families have the capacity to decide how organize their own personal lives, including education and work and conservation of family resources.

Feminists come in many stripes. In addtion, there are feminists all over the world and they are not all the same ideologically as NOW has apparently duped you into believing. They play that hand nicely and you (and millions others) fall in line like sheep. Fortunately, this is actually an advantage for broader feminism. As in the military, while people are fighting a meaningless battle on one front, the real work is being done elsewhere.

People are not all the same, no matter how we try to collectively stereotype them.

[waterstraat]

It is MEN, not women, who are exempting women from selective service registration and MEN not women who are keeping women from serving in combat positions . Incidently, not all men are qualified for combat. The military finds useful positions for people of all kinds of aptitudes. Proportionally, more people are involved in logistics and support positions. Are men who never serve in the military or who never see combat "not equal" with men who have?

All men are equal with each other, and are superior to women, since all men are subject to the draft. I know it is the MEN who do not want women to serve, but neither do women want to be drafted either. Men do not want women in the miliary or in combat because they think women are inferior. Draftable women, just do not want to do it,and think they can get out of it.

Be that as it may, it doesnt matter the reasons, if women were truely equal, they would be subject to the draft, and would go into combat just as men are.

Women are not equal, the "feminine" is still considered sissy and inferior, and any boy or man who expresses the feminine is scorned. While, on the other hand, the "masculine" is considered superior by all in our society, by both men and women, and masculinity is considered admirable, tomboyish, and desirable, even in girls or women to try to be or emulate masculine/masculinity.

Women may "pretend" they are considered "equal", but they are not !

[Lorianne]

Says you. See you at the polls.

[dtk]

I kind of agree, I too was in Korea and was amazed at the whoring the married men did over there.

I even knew some of these men while I was stationed in Ft Lewis, a bunch of us from Lewis went there and about of the thousands of guys (married and not) I knew one that I was somewhat sure that he was not cheating on his wife. By about month 6 I decided to stop being surprised, I was still surprised when they would brag about it, to include how much they paid.

Also while in Korea our company had they highest number of STDs, one month the CO decided to convey this to the rest of the company. Obviously these guys were not wearing the free condoms that the company had left in the hanger, barracks, etc.

[dtk]

I think the best reason not to put women in combat was because there are men there and they rape women. This is common right now in Iraq and technically women aren’t in combat yet.

[dtk]

I’ve been deployed too, with all men. I pulled more than my weight, being a female attracts attention. So if they need someone to carry the m60, you’re it, same with dirty jobs and working late and o every aircraft. What I saw was a lot of men sitting around watching. A lot of E5s and above not knowing how to do their job, probably because they got away with not doing it for years.

[dtk]

“Ah, now see madam, here is where you let every veteran know that you are clueless and know not of what you speak.
Yes, it is a volunteer military. However, there are a finite amount of slots. Some slots are very competitive and very hard to get into because there are not a lot of them from the get go. When a female receives such a slot and doesn’t pull her weight, it hurts everyone. Pulling her weight can mean a lot of things. For instance, she’s in x slot, but cannot perform her job functions because she’s gotten herself knocked up. This puts a strain on her peers because they have to take up her slack, yet the unit cannot get a person to replace her because she is still there. She may be working as a clerk or a driver or who knows what, but as far as PERSCOM is concerned, she’s still filling the slot.”

It’s more likely he couldn’t get a high GT score (Army).

[dtk]

Actually in the eyes of the law they are not totally equal. Many laws are made to “protect” vets. Like the Jobs for Veterans Act of 2002. Prior to this there were others to protect Vietnam vets etc.