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To: Redcloak
LOL. I see you bristle at the mere use of the word race and gentics in the same breath as culture. I suspect that indeed you do have PC leanings in this area...and given that, you will naturally assume that I'm racist since I don't adhere ro your kumbaya sentiments. Indeed in your extreme example of dropping one Swedish infant into any foreign environment then you are correct that this infant will assume most of the cultural practices around itself in time. However if genetics and hence behavior have no influence on culture than why do we not all have a universal bland culture worldwide? Geography alone does not explain it. The problem is that the relationship between genetics and behavior and culture is complimentary and it can be difficult to see which is influencing the other at which stage.

Your statement that it is Hogwash that genetics influences behavior which influences culture discounts many rather obvious exceptions like American Indian alcoholism. I for one do not think that American Indians have incredible alcoholism rates strictly because of their behavior and culture. They are obviously genetically predisposed to abuse alcohol and occupy an environment conducive to such behavior hence their genetics is indeed influencing their behavior and in turn their culture.

BTW, you could probably drop that Swedish baby into a family of chimps and it would emulate chimps as well...to a degree.

I have observed race and culture all over the world and confess that from a layman's perspective that there are indeed differences physically which can most definitely be catagorized by race. Often but not always, there are substantial cultural definitions ascribed by race (and genetics) as well but then one gets into all the other variables which contribute besides race so it becomes impossible to draw a conclusion as to how much influence that is.

34 posted on 09/18/2002 1:12:07 PM PDT by wardaddy
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To: wardaddy
PC leanings? Kumbaya sentiments? Try science.

However if genetics and hence behavior have no influence on culture than why do we not all have a universal bland culture worldwide?

We have different cultures because we speak different languages. Are you going to claim that language is dictated by DNA? Is there a French gene? An English gene? When people speak different languages, they don't interact. If they don't interact, then they don't share culture.

Indeed in your extreme example of dropping one Swedish infant into any foreign environment then you are correct that this infant will assume most of the cultural practices around itself in time.

Most practices? Try ALL practices. Or perhaps you can tell us what Swedish cultural traits are genetically determined. You are obviously mistaking genetics for culture.

Oh... Admittedly, "Hogwash" isn't the most accurate term I could have used. However, I didn't want to see the AM pull the post for foul language; no matter how apropos it might be.

37 posted on 09/18/2002 1:23:36 PM PDT by Redcloak
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To: wardaddy
Your statement that it is Hogwash that genetics influences behavior which influences culture discounts many rather obvious exceptions like American Indian alcoholism. I for one do not think that American Indians have incredible alcoholism rates strictly because of their behavior and culture. They are obviously genetically predisposed to abuse alcohol and occupy an environment conducive to such behavior hence their genetics is indeed influencing their behavior and in turn their culture.

Really? Where is your evidence that indians are predisposed genetically to abuse alchol? Their tolerance for alcohol probably has something to do with genetics since a population will adapt over generations to large consumptions of alcohol, e.g. the irish. The indians, however, were isolated for hundreds of years and were not exposed to drink, and therefore their bodies cannot now handle large amounts without falling apart. But this is a far cry from saying that a gene predisposes them to alcohol abuse. There is zero evidence for this. Human bodies will adapt over time to certain conditions, but new genes never appear. Whatever information is in the human genome was there at the beginning, only now the genome has deteriorated from what it was originally. This is quite the opposite from neodarwinian theory - which is a bunch of crapola.

44 posted on 09/18/2002 1:51:14 PM PDT by exmarine
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To: wardaddy
I for one do not think that American Indians have incredible alcoholism rates strictly because of their behavior and culture.

Culture has nothing to do with it. The various tribes had/have different cultures,and I'm not aware of a single Indian tribe whose members don't have problems handling alcohol. There may be one,but I'm not aware of it.

They are obviously genetically predisposed to abuse alcohol

Yup. I'm sure one part of it that we just like to fight,and alcohol is the perfect accessory for this tendency. Give a Indian a pint of liquor or a six-pak,and he will attack hell with a bucket of water. Like many other Indians (I'm a Tuscarora) I was raised in the white culture,and there weren't even any other Indians anywhere around that I was aware of. None the less,I took to whiskey like a duck takes to water. I was a "blackout drinker" who didn't pass out. I could get drunk on 3 beers,but could drink all day. I'd black out mentally,but would still be drinking,moving around,and breaking things. There were good reasons for it being illegal to sell Indians whiskey.

and occupy an environment conducive to such behavior hence their genetics is indeed influencing their behavior and in turn their culture.

"and occupy an environment....". What is that supposed to mean,that drunks go to bars or keep alcohol in their houses? That ain't exactly a profound statement,even if it is cicrular logic.

60 posted on 09/18/2002 5:58:52 PM PDT by sneakypete
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