Netscape 7.0 Shrivels Under Mozilla's Shadow

E-Week ^ | August 29, 2K2 | Jim Rapoza

[rdb3]

With the release of Netscape 7.0, Netscape Communications Corp. and its parent AOL have finally completed the transformation of the browser from a powerful and highly customizable Web and e-mail client to an intrusive home-user-focused client more on par with Microsoft Corp,'s MSN Explorer and the AOL client itself.

[rdb3]

The Penguin Ping.

Wannna be Penguified? Just holla!

Got root?

[Knitebane]

This was discussed ad nauseum on Slashdot a few days ago.

A substantial majority of computer users have never heard of Mozilla. But they have heard of Netscape.

Netscape is hoping to use their less feature-full version of Mozilla to cash in on name recognition.

Those that truely want the features of Mozilla will find their way to the Mozilla website and download the latest version. Those people that simply want to browse using the default settings of their browser will be happy with Netscape.

Choice is good.

[Tony in Hawaii]

Another Mozilla user here. I keep IE around for those rare websites that won't work with Mozilla.

[NovemberCharlie]

I use Mozilla, and a standalone Instant Messenger.

[JoeSixPack1]

Opera rocks!!!

[EaglesUpForever]

Mozilla is sure better than Netscape, but both are weak in their support for Web standards, arguably a bit weaker than IE though there are tradeoffs (better Moz CSS, better IE XSLT).

No browser does a good job of XHTML, so sites Today still have to be written in the non-standard "HTML" as it evolved with the NS/IE duopoly.

There is plenty of room for a new browser, but Microsoft set such an example with Netscape that no company wants to step up to the plate.

[pops88]

I use both Mozilla and Opera at the same time. I guess I'm just too lazy to organize my bookmarks and I can't dicide which I like better. Besides, Mozilla is usually dedicated to FR threads. Less confusion ;)

[AdA$tra]

I am just glad that I no longer have to develop two version of each website or webapp I design. It reduces development costs by at least one-third. My clients think I have a sale going on when actually they are the non-victims of the so-called MS monopoly scheme. Netscape made a very funtional 4.7x browser and went straight down hill from there. Netscape 6 and 7 are so bad even their own parent AOL uses IE for their engine. OK freaks: Flame Away, I already know how great Mozilla, Gecko, Opera and whatever are. I just don't have to cater to their special needs...er...flaws any more.

[tetelestai]

Mozilla rocks! I'm running it on Windwos 2000, Solaris, HP-UX, and Linux. All of my co-workers switched to Mozilla last Friday.

I really like the ad blocking features. And it seems to be faster than Netscape.

[Knitebane]

non-standard "HTML"

What, did the W3C vanish?

HTML has had published standards since 1995.

Both Netscape and Microsoft "extended" the existing standards, starting the current problem of standarisation, although Netscape hasn't implemented any "extensions" for over 3 years. Three years is plenty of time for manufacturers to catch up with the "extensions," but Microsoft keeps adding on.

Currently, Mozilla has better support for all published standards.

The fact that IE supports proprietary Microsoft extensions better than other browsers hardly makes it better in the area of standards. Simply because Microsoft IE and IIS support something does not make it a standard.

Frankly, the complaining about which browser supports what is hogwash. Any web designer that doesn't run his pages through the W3Cs validator and fix his non-standard implementation is an idiot.

I have never had any problem with any page using Mozilla that passed the W3Cs validator test. Since the W3C is the standards body for the web, if a web page can't pass their validator, that page doesn't support the standard. If a browser can't read it, it's the web designers problem, not the browser.

[Knitebane]

Netscape 6 and 7 are so bad even their own parent AOL uses IE for their engine.

This has more to do with licensing agreements and less with technical merit.

AOL is shipping Netscape 6 as the default browser in their next Compuserve Beta. The results of the usability testing will determine whether AOL switches to Netscape for their AOL software.

So what are you going to do with all of your websites when 3 million users suddenly have browsers that support the published standards, instead of the Microsoft "it's a standard because we said it's a standard" standard?

I've said for years that any web developer that doesn't run his code throught the W3C's validator and then fix his code is an idiot.

Does your code pass?

[AdA$tra]

Does your code pass?

Sure it does. But that doesn't make it look any better in Netscape:-)

Much of the actual HTML is generated on the fly by Lotus/Domino, but it still has to look good and work great. We use Dreamweaver for our static and pass thru HTML. I still develop cross browser, just that nobody really cares if an image or table looks odd in Netscape because all three people still using it don't really know the difference and use Netscape only because they hate Microsoft.

[Knitebane]

Most of the sites that don't work with Mozilla are intentionally not letting you see them because of the user agent code that your browser returns to them.

Opera and Konqueror let you easily spoof IE's user agent strings, tricking sites into thinking that you are running IE. Mozilla's preference file can be edited to do the same, instructions for doing so are here.

If the site still doesn't work, then the idiot web designer has badly broken code. If I'm not in a hurry I'll often run the website source code through the W3C validator and then email the results to the webmaster.

[bobwoodard]

Netscape 6 and 7 are so bad even their own parent AOL uses IE for their engine.

Didn't I read that the Mac version of AOL was (had?) switched to NS7?

[Knitebane]

But that doesn't make it look any better in Netscape:-)

You obviously haven't used a recent Netscape or Mozilla. You need to update your FUD sheet.

...and use Netscape only because they hate Microsoft.

And people only live in gated communities because they hate blacks and Jews. /sarcasm

Good grief, do you have a persecution complex? Just because someone prefers to use something other than a Microsoft product does not infer hate.

If your code passed the W3C test, then it will display properly in any modern browser. If you are using proprietary Microsoft extensions and they don't display properly in a modern browser, it's your fault for breaking standards, not the browser or the user.

[wireplay]

Why bother writing for other browsers? I write in ASP.NET because it is a) enjoyable, b) fast, c) makes money, d) allows me to do cool things, and e) see below...

Report: Browser War Actually A Massacre

By InternetWeek.com

The percentage of Web surfers using the Netscape browser has reached record lows, even as new versions of the platform including the Mozilla open-source effort come to market.

As of this week, Netscape's global usage share had dropped to 3.4 percent, down from 13 percent last year at this time, according to data from analytics vendor WebSideStory. The report is based on data from the company's StatMarket, which aggregates data from millions of Web browsers each day.

Market share for Microsoft's Internet Explorer, on the other hand, continues to rise, up to 96 percent today versus 87 percent a year ago.

Netscape has its pockets of global support, including Switzerland, Germany, Canada, and even the U.S.

"The browser war is in fact a massacre," said Geoff Johnston, vice president of product marketing for StatMarket, in a statement, adding that Netscape is almost on a par now with other browsers such as Opera in the market share battle.

[wireplay]

Rock on. I will NOT write for other browsers because it is pointless. Until one of them comes up with market share to justify their existence, I don't care. It is not my job as a web developer to create jobs for the Opera folks, my job is to make money. That means going with the lion's share of the market. Chicken and egg? You bet, but I don't care.

If others want to practice charity, so be it. I am a capitalist and proud of the moniker. That means IE until others prove to me (with market figures) why I should target something else. BTW, I couldn't care less about the W3C because they don't have to make money and their own website is pathetic. </capitalist pig rant off>

[Knitebane]

The primary mistake made by software companies such as Novell, Lotus, WordPerfect, Ashton-Tate and Borland was thinking that just because they were on top meant that it would always be that way.

The domination of Microsoft's products in the market will pass. It is an historical inevitability.

The only questions are:

Who will displace them?

and

When will it happen?

Tying yourself to a single source makes you as vulnerable as all of the dBase III experts that had to scramble to learn SQL.

Those of us that stayed abreast of IEEE, IETF and other open, published standards simply shrugged off the demise of individual companies.

[wireplay]

Understood. But I have been around this industry a long time as well including long stints with MVS, Unix, and PCs. As a senior consultant in the tech industry, my job is to educate clients on what technology maximizes their returns: right now, it is hard to argue with Microsoft.

Sure, I could tell them the beauty of competition in the industry but it is hard to argue with their customers: end-users. IE works, it's free, it's on the user's home pcs, and it has loads of users at their workplace.