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California CCW Update: CCW Lawsuit tactics
Equal Rights for CCW, California ^ | Ongoing | Jim March

Posted on 08/31/2002 6:22:42 PM PDT by monkeyshine

Background:Jim March is a fighter for equal access to the right to conceal carry in California. After having been denied a CCW permit by his local sheriff, he filed a suit in Federal court based on equal protections. He alleged that the sheriff was using uneven criteria for issueing permits, that only large contributors, politicians and the well connected received permits while the average men and women were routinely rejected.

He began to subpeona documents detailing all the CCWs issued in his county. The documents confirmed his suspicions, but the trial judge refused to beleive that such widespread corruption existed and dismissed the case without trial.

Next Step: His next step is to file a lawsuit based on racial, ethnic and financial discriminatory practices.

To combat this tactic, State Attorney General Lockyear conspired with local sheriffs to change the CCW forms so that "good cause", "occupation" and "Age" of the applicants could not be turned over under the freedom of information laws. Naturally, anybody alleging that the CCW practices of local sheriffs are capricious and arbitrary would need to have this information to make the case. Lockyear and the Sheriffs have conspired to insultate themselves from investigations. It is clear from CBS v Block (lawsuit from 1986) and Guillory v Gates (lawsuit from 1982) that the state and the sheriffs are legally obligated to turn this information over. How else can the public at large know if the Sheriffs are using their discretionary power in an abusive, racist, capricious, or corrupt manner?

Update The upshot of all this is that a "suit of mandamus (mandate)" has been filed against the state AG, asking the court to order the attorney general to turn over the relevant information. This information will be used in a new federal lawsuit against the sheriff with broader implications for the state.

Current state law gives broad discretion to the Sheriffs and Police Chiefs when issuing CCWs. While they are supposed to issue them in a uniform manner based on need, the reality is that the well connected can simply cite "personal safety" and receive a permit, while a woman who has been threatened with death from an abusive drug addicted boyfriend or a many-times-robbed convenience store owner carrying large sums of cash in a bad neighborhood is denied.

Evidence shows that in a city which is 45% Hispanic, only 3% of the CCW permits are issued to Hispanics. This kind of overt discrimination is the basis for a new lawsuit being prepared. Tactically, the plaintiffs need the statewide CCW information that the AG is trying to stonewall in order to make the allegations. Racial discrimination, capricious issuance, cronyism, campaign contributorism, etc are the allegations.

The Goal is to get the federal courts to force the state to reform their CCW practices. Some counties are practically "shall issue" while others are virtual "non-issue"... although no county is officially "non-issue" because state law requires sheriffs to accept applications and make a finding in each individual case. Blanket denials is illegal, but is widely practiced in large counties -- with the exception of a few well connect, wealthy donors. It's time to change California's CCW system.


TOPICS: Announcements; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Extended News; US: California
KEYWORDS: banglist; california; ccw; jimmarch
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Jim March is a banned freeper. He was banned for profanity and belligerance, as many newbies are unprepared for the ideological assaults one receives here. He was assaulted from the left and from the right here, and responded in frustrated profanity -- thus earning him the boot.

Nevertheless, I am a supporter of his cause and want to keep freepers informed of the progress.

1 posted on 08/31/2002 6:22:42 PM PDT by monkeyshine
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To: *bang_list
Bump
2 posted on 08/31/2002 6:23:01 PM PDT by monkeyshine
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To: AJFavish; Donald Stone
fyi
3 posted on 08/31/2002 6:23:26 PM PDT by monkeyshine
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To: monkeyshine
...but the trial judge refused to beleive that such widespread corruption existed and dismissed the case without trial.

The author obviously did not understant. The judge understood perfectly well what was happening. The judge is just part of the power elite in the community that wants the "rift raff" unarmed.

4 posted on 08/31/2002 6:27:20 PM PDT by Robert357
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To: Robert357
You could be right. Although to read Jim's website he actually believed going in that the Judge was a fair and honest one.

In any event, instead of appealing his own case, he has brought in some more attorneys and took another tactic which broadens his claims. By claiming racial discrimination they have more reasons for the case to be heard and appealed if dismissed or lost at trial.

The racial discrimination angle doesn't have to prove intent. It merely needs to prove that racial disparity exists, in which case the methods need to be reformed. You and I both know (without actually seeing the data) that the vast majority of CCW holders in the state are rich white men. Hispanics, Blacks, Women and the Poor make up only a small percentage of CCW holders. But of course they need this data to make the case stick.

The case won't just be about race, but including race makes the case less assailable and increases the chances that it will go to trial and not be dismissed. Going to Federal Court should help insulate it from the cronyism factor of the local courts but nothing is a guarantee.

He needs more plaintiffs for this case. Anyone who has been rejected for CCW should contact him. Especially if one is a "minority", but anyone who has been rejected may be able to join as a plaintiff. Not sure if it will be "class action" but having more plaintiffs helps to prevent the causes from being dismissed, as each plaintiff's case will have to be dismissed.

5 posted on 08/31/2002 6:35:58 PM PDT by monkeyshine
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To: monkeyshine
Im shocked that California even has CCW, this must have been passed a long time ago, im surprised they havent repealed it yet.
6 posted on 08/31/2002 6:47:44 PM PDT by Husker24
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To: Husker24
No suprise at all all most all firearms laws were past with the intent to keep the poor and those not in power from being armed. I am sure when it was past it was with the intent that see you can get a permit just ask.(sure when see decide your the right type.)I they couldn't past a complete ban so they did a end run calling for permits but only with premisson.
7 posted on 08/31/2002 6:59:37 PM PDT by riverrunner
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To: Husker24
We have CCW, because the cronies want it.

The law is bizarre. If you violate the law and carry concealed, the first offense is only a misdemeanor. But you may still lose your right to purchase firearms, so it isn't worth the risk.

8 posted on 08/31/2002 7:04:55 PM PDT by monkeyshine
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To: monkeyshine
If you think that being convicted of a misdemeanor prohibits one from purchasing a firearm legally you are mistaken. There "may" be a problem getting a CCW with a misdemeanor record but not absolute.
9 posted on 08/31/2002 7:23:19 PM PDT by kellynla
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To: kellynla
No, I don't think any misdemeanor will do. I think certain misdemeanors may cause you to lose your right to possess one legally for 10 years in the state.

I'm not sure if carry concealed without a permit qualifies as one of these, but I'm fairly certain that certain misdemeanors do.

10 posted on 08/31/2002 7:55:28 PM PDT by monkeyshine
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To: Husker24
It's my recollection that California had open carry until the early 60's. Some of the outlaw motorcycle clubs got the legislature to stop that. California 50 years ago was a whole different place.
11 posted on 08/31/2002 8:05:03 PM PDT by TEXASPROUD
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To: TEXASPROUD
It was about 50 years ago I was sent to the head of the Calif Hiway Patrol to talk about a permit to carry. My family had been rousted twice while camping and I was tired of it.

The head of the CHP told me, "No way. If you are a personal friend of the Governor, maybe. Otherwise no. When you and I come into contact, I want to know that I am the only one who is armed. End of discussion."
12 posted on 08/31/2002 8:18:49 PM PDT by edger
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To: monkeyshine
I think that misdemeanor spousal abuse prohibits gun possession forever.I believe that in Calif. simple possession of Marijuana can result in losing 2nd Amendment rights per voter initiative.The voter initiative also mandates counseling instead of jail time for first time offenders.You won't go to jail but you can't own a gun either.And that's forever too.
13 posted on 08/31/2002 8:19:49 PM PDT by stimulate
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To: TEXASPROUD
It was the Black Panther Party that caused the Calif. legislature to change the open carry law.The Black Panthers were going out of their way to intimidate law enforcement by parading with rifles,and literaly standing as close as possible to Oakland Police Dept., with a rifle.

14 posted on 08/31/2002 8:30:13 PM PDT by stimulate
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To: stimulate
The rest of the country could save California from itself. If the Federal Government mandated that CCW permits issued in any state is valid in all, California would almost be forced to begin issuing them as a source of revenue. Otherwise, people will go in droves to Nevada or other states to get a permit.
15 posted on 08/31/2002 8:41:55 PM PDT by monkeyshine
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To: monkeyshine
I live in one of the CA counties that is as near to "shall issue" as possible. I got my CCW the first of the year when I heard our elected sherrif was retiring. I attended a gun show today and both candidates for the county sherrif seat were present and both proclaimed their support for 2cnd ammendment and continued ccw issues. In Los Angeles county to the south, you do have to be rich or important to get a ccw.
16 posted on 08/31/2002 8:42:54 PM PDT by umgud
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To: monkeyshine
Well if you or anybody you know applies and has a problem let me know.
17 posted on 08/31/2002 8:47:29 PM PDT by kellynla
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To: stimulate
May 2, 1967
18 posted on 08/31/2002 8:49:25 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: kellynla; umgud
I never applied. I have spoken with some people who claimed to be pros at it and they all said don't bother, it's impossible in Los Angeles.

fwiw I have no felonies or misdemeanors.

What county are you in umgood. Orange?

19 posted on 08/31/2002 9:00:48 PM PDT by monkeyshine
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To: Husker24
Shoot, yeh, boy! We even got 'lectricity!

Used to have books, too. But they outlawed them. Heard a couple years ago someone tried to smuggle some books into the state. Had to let him go, though. There was no one here who could prove they were books! ;-)
20 posted on 08/31/2002 9:08:51 PM PDT by hoosierskypilot
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