As they say in Kentucky; "Cymru am bith".

News Wales (UK) ^ | 8/26/02 | Unknown

[scouse]

Looks like they're going to take away Columbus Day and give us a day named after a guy whose name we can't pronounce.

[Black Agnes]

interesting ping!

[paulklenk]

So is it possible the Welsh pre-date the Indians, and lay claim to a bit of casino land...?

[Notforprophet]

Wilson and Blackett were also commissioned to produce a detailed genealogy of the Bush family by former President George Bush (senior).

That final sentence is peculiar. These guys sound like experts in Welsh and Arthurian history, what's the connection to the Bush family?

[stars & stripes forever]

...it is possible the Welsh pre-date the Indians, and lay claim to a bit of casino land....?

Maybe they had African slaves too.

[RightWhale]

is it possible the Welsh pre-date the Indians

That would probably not be the case. However, the location of Avalon is still not been verified. Tales of land to the west go back pretty far.

[crystalk]

Possible bogus aspects of this story are suggested by the fact that Madoc sailed to America not in the 6th century, but in the 12th century, around the year 1122, in a ship called the Gwennan Gorn, along with nine other ships.

Early settlers around Louisville found quite a bit of evidence they considered Welsh, especially that it was used as a kind of diplomatic and "educated" lingua-franca by the various Indian tribes, much like the Europeans then used Latin.

Several stone forts atop mountains in Georgia, Alabama, and Tennessee that obviously were desperate attempts at defence by some outnumbered European people, plus Cherokee and other legends suggesting that they had to overcome a scattered white (blue) eyed people en route from the Gulf Coast area to their home in the southern Mountains, migration circa 650-720 AD...

Celtic inscriptions dated to the 480-720 AD era are atop several mountains in West Virginia.

[CholeraJoe]

Some of Thomas jefferson's writings indicated that he believed Lewis and Clark might find blue-eyed natives speaking Welsh in the interior of North America.

[Tancred]

Of course the Welsh didn't discover Amerca, the Muslims did.

http://www.jannah.org/articles/precolumbus.html
http://www.themodernreligion.com/ht/before-columbus.html

[Private Joker]

Near Fort Mountain State Park in North Georgia, there are remains of stone walls, long and built low. Legend has it a white race built them hundreds of years ago. They eventually disappeared, one theory is that they were killed off by Indians. The web site identifies the walls as built by Indians, but the signs in the park identify the builders as white-skinned and fair-haired.

http://gastateparks.org/info.asp?id=42&linkval=fortmt&siteid=5

[Tancred]

Stupid infidel should have written "America", not "Amerca"! Down with Amerca!

[KC Burke]

Celtic inscriptions dated to the 480-720 AD era are atop several mountains in West Virginia

Assuming the inscriptions were in stone, how is such close dating done with no radio carbon, decomposition or similar things to place it in time?

[Jim Noble]

Isn't this in the Book of Mormon?

What a kick in the a** if that's all really true!

[El Sordo]

An archaeologist with too much time on his hands bump!

[crystalk]

That, of course, was a reference to the Mandan of North Dakota, who had a number of very curious [sexual& other] customs aimed at the genetic preservation of an elite in-group of some 10%, and who furthermore made a European-style stockade with outer moat, and surprisingly solid houses.

There were many Celtic loan words in their vocabulary, and they made a round leather coracle or bull-boat to pole along in the Missouri R.

All who saw the Mandan were aware that they represented a Euro-Amerind [mestizo] people of some kind, probably mixed at a not-too-remote date, since even Lewis & Clark said that all hair and eye colors seen in Virginia whites could be seen, by exception, in the [two large] Mandan villages.

Runaway Norsemen from the Greenland and/or Vinland colonies, see Kensington Runestone, have also been suggested; the two are not mutually exclusive, but archaeological remains suggest the Mandan had been driven down the Ohio and up the Miss/Mo River systems, until at length they reached an area where their superior agricultural and living technology gave them an advantage over other tribes' numbers, enough to survive.

The Mandan had a vassal (slave) sub-tribe, the Hidatsa, who dwelt near and around them on the prairie and seem to have picked up some of their ways at 2d hand. IIRC the language of the Hidatsa was Siouxan, however, while that of the Mandan was a mix of Celtic with Shawneean or Ohio-Valley tribes' languages.

The Mandan mostly perished in a smallpox epidemic about 1839-40 after their chief had turned down a US offer to vaccinate the whole tribe. Survivors took refuge and mingled with the Sioux and other tribes of Indians before any adequate ethnological study could be done. See accounts of them in Catlin and in Lewis & Clark.

[crystalk]

By the alphabet and language written (Celtic), and by what the message said. It was Christian, and told them how to calculate the dates for Christmas, and told of Christ's having been born of a virgin at Bethlehem.

At least one whole issue in the 1980s of Wonderful West Virginia was about this.

[crystalk]

Another one in Alabama called Fort Mtn also, I think, and at least one in Tn. Evidence also nr Lookout Mtn, Tn/Ga.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

Where's my casino ?

[scouse]

Could there have been two different Welsh chiefs with similar names?

PRINCE MADOC AB OWAIN (12th century) and Prince Madoc ap Meurig,(Mentioned in article)

[Liberty Tree Surgeon]

Bump for later reference.