The other energy scandal: Ethanol

The Jewish World Review ^ | August 28, 2002 | Michelle Malkin

[alloysteel]

This has been a favorite topic and issue for the "Greens", but apparently the motives for wanting to use ethanol have a much broader base than that.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

There's no $.03-$.05 cost for retrofitting refineries. The ethanol is delivered by rail car or truck and blended with gasoline at the time a semi is loaded out.
But I agree, ethanol does not help clean the air and costs more than its worth.

[DoughtyOne]

The panels concluded that a jump in ethanol consumption would increase gasoline costs and might create fuel supply shortages on the East and West coasts. Retrofitting refineries to produce an ethanol blend could add at least 3 to 5 cents to a gallon of gas. In California, the mandate could raise fuel costs by nearly a dime per gallon; in New York, it could mean a de facto gas take hike of more than 7 cents per gallon. The ignored advice from Bush's experts is consistent with reams of past findings on both the economic and scientific fraud that is ethanol.

This is a disengenuous comment.  The fact is Californians pay extra to place MTB into the gasoline right now.  Ethanol would add nothing more to the cost of gasoline in the long run, since MTB is being phased out, replaced by ethanol.

Also, doesn't ethanol burn cleaner than gasoline?  That's been my understanding.

Now, I have a hard time thinking it's a great idea to support Sheiks from the middle-east by buying more oil, when we can divert dollars to the American farmer or American based companies instead.

[DoughtyOne]

I should ammend my comment that Ethanol wouldn't cost any more. It's production does cost more. The process of adding it to gasoline isn't the additional cost factor as stated by the article.

[Ford Fairlane]

Also, doesn't ethanol burn cleaner than gasoline?

In the car, yes, alcohol burns cleaner. The problem is, ethanol has half the btu's of gasoline, and it takes more energy (steam and electricity) to manufacture than gasoline.

ADM's ethanol refinery is powered by their own power plant which burns high sulfer coal, which creates a lot of pollution, one way or another. Even if the fluidized bed boiler and the scrubbers are working properly, the nasty stuff has to go somewhere.

So, if you look at the "big picture" burning ethanol, manufactured by ADM, in your car actually pollutes more (per BTU (or horsepower)) than burning gasoline.

[genefromjersey]

I believe , based on information I've read, neither MBTE or Ethanol is the least bit needed.

It's my understanding the refineries themselves have long been capable of producing cleaner burning fuel, without the use of additives; and that the only reason we have additives at all is "financially influenced" governmental intervention.

[alloysteel]

Ethanol can be made from natural gas. One of the components of natural gas is ethane, C2H6. By running ethane over platinum catalyst in the presence of water vapor, two of the H+ are abstracted from the molecule, and the H2O molecule is pasted on, forming C2H5OH, ethanol. No corn, no fossil energy input, relatively little waste heat, using a product that would have simply been burned as a component of natural gas.

Better answer than making ethanol - retrofit automobiles to burn propane or compressed natural gas. Clean burning, high-octane fuel, easy starting, simplified plumbing on the engine (doesn't need all the catalytic burners, exhaust gas recirculation, fume recapture canisters, just a lot of cr*p that gets hung on vehicles today).

[Eric in the Ozarks]

A gallon of ethanol has about 85 percent of the energy as a gallon of gasoline. The pollution from the FBC is supposedly bound up in the limestone...
Right ?

[Eric in the Ozarks]

I recall Amoco made a push into propane fuel for autos about ten years ago but pulled back. Wonder why ?

[nightdriver]

"...By running ethane over platinum catalyst in the presence of water..."

Thank you, steel man. I didn't know what the catalyst for ethanol was. I was in on the conversion of an ethanol unit to make MEK, about ten years ago, and I remember all the vessles we had to reconstitute were copper, and the guard shack where the "revenooers" stayed was still there.

[Voltage]

Here is a link to the article which has been the subject of a lot of discussion:
http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/Aug01/corn-basedethanol.hrs.html

[Paleo Conservative]

This is a disengenuous comment. The fact is Californians pay extra to place MTB into the gasoline right now. Ethanol would add nothing more to the cost of gasoline in the long run, since MTB is being phased out, replaced by ethanol.

Also, doesn't ethanol burn cleaner than gasoline? That's been my understanding.

No!

Both MTBE and ethanol are oxygenates. They supply extra oxygen (in addition to the oygen in the fuel air mix in the engine) to ensure more complete combustion of the fuel. Modern fuel injected engines burn gasoline much more thoroughly than the old carbereted engines, and oxygenates don't make them run any cleaner. Oxygenates decrease the energy content of gasoline so you get fewer miles per gallon while increasing the cost of gasoline. Oxygenates were mandated as a way of improving the emissions of older cars. This is typical of the bureacratic thinking. Congress is more interested in creating a mass of laws, regulations, and bureaucracies than actually solving the problem. Considering that all new cars have fuel injection, it makes no sense to require oxygenates. What would make more sense are incentives to get old cars off the road, especially in areas and states with high pollution levels. One way to do this would be to charge a per mile fee on older cars registered in California. That way, the more you drive a high polluting car the more you would pay. This would encourage the junking of older and dirtier running cars or selling them out of state.

[Ford Fairlane]

I'd be all for propane or cng - I have friends with tractors & trucks that run on them & maintenance is a lot less.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

Some good points, Paleo. Minnesota had an auto inspection program for many years...I think it cost $7 to have this emissions inspection but they failed a car only once in a blue moon. Finally, someone woke up in St. Paul and they did away with the silly inspections. It was totally unnecessary.

[Ford Fairlane]

Ethanol has 50% the energy of gasoline.

The pollution in the fluidized bed boiler is bound up in the limestone if it is working right, but they haul the limestone / ash mixture off & dump it. If the dump is in the wrong place, (and half of them are) the rainwater leaches the "bad" chemicals out of the mixture & it goes into the watershed. There can be a lot of heavy metals, etc in the residue.

The only safe dumping spot is in abandoned deep shaft coal mines, filling the tunnels in so they wont collapse.

[Ford Fairlane]

I recall Amoco made a push into propane fuel for autos about ten years ago but pulled back. Wonder why ?

The insurance companies didn't go for it they think if you get in a wreck you will go boom worse than with gasoline.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

I thought it was a bit more than 50 percent...
I was in the coal biz when the first FBC's (from Finnland) starting showing up in industrial applications...we thought it would be the salvation of our industry. Unfortunately, the flip side of this was a massive increase in landfill materials. And, the higher the sulfur content, the more limestone required, so, high sulfur coal still suffered a penalty in the buyer's eyes.
I thought the spent limestone was useful as gypsum for wall board ?

[Paleo Conservative]

Finally, someone woke up in St. Paul and they did away with the silly inspections. It was totally unnecessary.

Excactly

Most of the pollution emitted by automobiles is emitted by a small percentage of the cars on the road. Locally a recent study showed that 13% of the vehicles caused 80% of the emissions. The typical government response is to require new cars to meet even higher standards. In Texas, some have proposed imposing Califorina emission standards on all new cars. The problem is these higher standards for new car auto emissions significantly increase the cost of new cars. So what do people do? They hold on to their older cars longer. I personally would prefer to pay a milage based fee for the emissions my car makes. An environmental fee would apply to all cars that are driven, not just to new cars. This would change the incentives for maintaining and driving older vehicles.

[Ford Fairlane]

I'm not sure about the wallboard.

When ADM first put their new boiler in they had a lot of trouble getting rid of the flyash - trouble with permits, etc. They tried to use it to build a "Ski Resort Mountain" in the middle of 600+ acres of watershed that runs right into the sangamon river, which feeds lake decatur, which is where Decatur gets it's drinking water. After a lot of protest & legal stuff they finally gave up. I was told that Indiana's EPA had also denied them a permit to dump it in strip mines south of Terre Haute. I think it is being mixed in with concrete now, but I'm not sure.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

ADM has a very large FBC spread just south of Cedar Rapids, IA. Coal comes from Illinois and ash goes back to be buried in underground works.