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Activists accuse China of a sweeping crackdown on Christians - 70 House Church Leaders Missing
AP ^
| 8-23-02
| William Foreman
Posted on 08/25/2002 8:57:42 AM PDT by tallhappy
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To: JimSEA
bjungnan acts as a Chinese communist propagandist and apologist. He always says the same sort of thing.
To: BJungNan
Your positions are quite clear and the contempt you engender for yourself is quite merited.
You are truly reprehensible.
To: tallhappy
Without reading your own position into my position, tell me what you find inaccurate in my earlier post (didn't we have a go at this in a previous thread).
23
posted on
08/26/2002 7:16:14 AM PDT
by
BJungNan
To: tallhappy
bjungnan acts as a Chinese communist propagandist and apologist. He always says the same sort of thing. That "same sort of thing" is to try and correct many misconceptions I continually see posted here (belive me, I've thought more than once I should just give it up). Shoot the messanger if you want, but what is being posted by some on here simply is not true. Are we supposed to ignore these things?
Tell me there are not many churches open for service every Sunday in China. Tell me Christianity is not the fastest growing religion in China. Tell me there is not a 4 story high nativity scene on Hui Hai Road in downtown Shanghai at the Parkson's department store every Christmas (and what are you talking about anyhow, we can't even post the 10 commandments in this country).
If these things are not true, then I will be quiet. But from some of the posts on here one would think you will be jailed in China for hanging a cross in your home. And if that is the case, the Chinese government better get busy knocking down a whole bunch of very large outdoor crosses visible in many places from all directions.
24
posted on
08/26/2002 7:32:20 AM PDT
by
BJungNan
To: BJungNan
You are well aware that there are "inaccuracies", ie deliberate distortions, as well as overt lies.
Worse is your purposefull attempt at character assasination -- fighting your pro CCP propaganda war with innuendo and slander.
You cannot act in a lower more contemptable manner than you do.
And then for you to act so disingenupous about it...No insult would be too harsh for what you do.
To: BJungNan
That "same sort of thing" is to try and correct many misconceptions I... During impeachement and Clinton's tenure the Clintonistes came and posted the same nonsense over and over. And made the same comment you do here.
They posted propaganda, as you do, that was and is countered all the time in many posts in many ways.
But they kept posting the same propaganda lies over and over, just like you, and then demand "correction" etc...
They and you do not merit any respect nor time to do such.
I do not need to argue with Nazis who slander and spew propaganda. Nor do I ned to argue with CCP who lie and spew propaganda.
To: BJungNan
Is it your position that no Christians are in jail in China because they practice their faith?
BTW, it matters not what the official "charge" is. Stalin jailed hundreds of thousands for the ctrime of "wrecking," which could be intrepreted as virtually anything.
27
posted on
08/26/2002 7:52:15 AM PDT
by
Skooz
To: BJungNan
How many of those state churches actually preach the gospel? How many preach the resurrection and future return of Christ? How many Bibles are there in the pews in those churches? How far do citizens have to travel to get to state churches? How many are there per capita?
28
posted on
08/26/2002 8:32:28 AM PDT
by
agrace
To: BJungNan
...but my point was that many people don't understand it is unauthorized assembly that is not allowed, not religious worship.Did the govt in 1999 order its 60 million communist party members to abandon religious beliefs? Is it legal for soldiers in the army to practice any religion?
29
posted on
08/26/2002 8:35:23 AM PDT
by
agrace
To: tallhappy
See?
Our giving China Permanent Most Favored Nation trading status has not only secured them as our "strategic ally," but it is also bringing about the Civil Rights reforms we were told it would. Not to mention opening China's markets to American goods, thus eliminating the $70-billion-plus per-year Trade Deficit we have with them.
Oh... excuse me... none of that is happening. Oh, well.
To: tallhappy
This is nothing new. We are friends with a govt. that persecute the brethren. But it's not only China, there's also Sudan. Before attacking Serbia, Clinton moralized about it, saying it must be done to stop the genocide. But the lack of action against Sudan proved his words and his morals were worthless. Then, we all found out (surprise!) that there was no genocide! We took sides with muslim gangsers in Kosovo, so is it a big surprise now if we take sides with communist gangsters? I can see that not much has changed with the Bush Administration. We still coddle our enemies for the sake of the almighty dollar - Saudi Arabia, China, Vietnam - trade (almight dollar!) over moral principle! Sadly, the U.S. has become morally relative in its foreign policy and only acts in the interest of politics or money - but never on the basis of right and wrong. God is not blind to these injustices.
31
posted on
08/26/2002 8:50:13 AM PDT
by
exmarine
To: Gargantua
Joining the WTC has not worked out the way China wished. Imports are killing their steel industry and others face the same fate.
To: BJungNan
Probably these people were told at least once to stop their meetings but continued to assemble illegally.
You support arresting Christians who merely meet to pray, simply because the government wont approve their assembling in homes?
Sick.
patent +AMDG
33
posted on
08/26/2002 8:59:07 AM PDT
by
patent
To: patent
You support arresting Christians who merely meet to pray, simply because the government wont approve their assembling in homes?I am not supporting anything one way or the other. I'm simply stating the facts as I know them. Assembly in China, for any reason, is illegal, be it for Amway meetings, Mary Kay or in the name of The Lord.
Is this something you dispute?
With all due respect to your position, you are seriously misreading mine.
34
posted on
08/26/2002 3:21:19 PM PDT
by
BJungNan
To: Gargantua
Bingo!!!!..............your post # 30).................Bingo!!!
BTTT
35
posted on
08/26/2002 9:10:11 PM PDT
by
maestro
To: BJungNan
Is this something you dispute?
Oh, no. I readily recognize that China has an immoral dictatorship that happily jails, beats, and kills anyone it doesnt like. The difference is I disapprove of that, and have no hesitation to say so. You try to defend it by saying its the law. That is pathetic.
patent +AMDG
36
posted on
08/27/2002 8:04:40 AM PDT
by
patent
To: patent
Well, that is not my intention. I understand it has come accross that way to you and some others. All the Best, BJN
37
posted on
08/27/2002 11:18:28 AM PDT
by
BJungNan
To: BJungNan
A common misconception amoung many is that what is illegal in China is unauthorized assembly. Thanks for the Teutonic sentence.
The US Constitution allows peaceful assembly, no permit required.
China doesn't, you say. If so, one more reason why China will never progress to become a first-rate country.
To: BJungNan
I apologize to everyone that this topic from 2002 is being brought up. I discovered it while doing a search on Yahoo and when I read your reply BJungNan, I felt I must respond.
Ok, first of all these underground churches are illegal because they do not praise the government. They do not mix the Chinese government party in with their services. Unlike the 'legal' churches which have 'insiders' that spy on the congregation, where they have to praise their Communist government.
The reason there are underground churches is because of this and also because of the fact the Chinese government's persecution of Christians there.
People should be allowed to worship God in their homes. They should be allowed to hold private meetings with other Christians. You know the first leaders of China were Christians. China was doing a lot better than it has been doing since Communism came into power.
39
posted on
05/05/2004 10:40:50 PM PDT
by
Laus Deo
To: Laus Deo
Ok, first of all these underground churches are illegal because they do not praise the government. THey are illegal because they are private assembly.
People should be allowed to worship God in their homes.
They can, just not in groups.
They should be allowed to hold private meetings with other Christians
It is not allowed, not because they are Christians but because people are not allowed to organize meetingsin their homes. It does not matter if it is Amway they are selling or Church. Assembly of this nature in China is illegal. It is the same reason why Amway had to change it's marketing approach. They can not do it in China the way they do it in elsewhere.
Would you say people that sell Amway are persecuted in China? The answer is, if they meet in their homes after being warned not to, they will be.
40
posted on
05/05/2004 11:10:39 PM PDT
by
BJungNan
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