Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

When the state intervenes in the family, it runs roughshod .."
DA-DI ^ | FR post 8-11-2 | by Cathy Young

Posted on 08/12/2002 2:52:15 PM PDT by vannrox

by Cathy Young

The contentious debate over corporal punishment of children - a part of the "culture wars" between conservatives who support parental authority and liberals inclined to be suspicious of it - has recently focused on Michigan, with two cases of mothers accused of assault for slapping their wayward teen-age daughters. A month ago, 32-year-old Kathi Herren of Novi was convicted and sentenced to probation and counseling. Last week, 47-year-old Deborah Skousen of Genoa had better luck: A jury took just more than an hour to clear her.

   Both women have presented their prosecution as a misguided intrusion by the state into parental discipline. They have many supporters. Indeed, in many ways, the two stories could be seen as perfect cases for champions of parental rights.

   Herren's 14-year-old daughter, Amber Russell, had been behaving defiantly, drinking alcohol and stealing cigarettes. The day of the incident that led to the charges, Amber had left home despite being grounded; coming back, she yelled profanities at her mother and stepfather, then went up to her room and turned up the stereo. It was then that the confrontation took place. The police were called by a neighbor in whose house Amber had sought refuge.

   Eighteen-year-old Rebecca Skousen, too, had been breaking rules, drinking and lying. The slap came after she disappeared from home for the weekend, then refused to say where she had been. Deborah Skousen testified that Rebecca called her vulgar names (Rebecca made the same charge against her mother). The next day, the girl complained to her high school counselors, who sent her to the emergency room - even though it's in dispute whether she suffered even a slight bruise - and called the cops.

   Skousen was charged with aggravated domestic violence (what, then, would simple domestic violence be?). If convicted, she could have received a year in jail and a $1,000 fine.

   Even many parents, and experts, who oppose physical discipline say the authorities have gone too far. Parents, they say, are trapped between the rock of abuse laws and the hard place of increasingly popular statutes making parents responsible for their teen-age kids' misconduct. Consider another Michigan case. In 1996, Anthony and Susan Provenzino of St. Clair Shores were convicted for failing to control their 17-year-old son, who was accused of several burglaries and drug possession (a judge later threw out their convictions).

   It's very well to say parents can discipline without resorting to physical force. But reasoning doesn't always work, and sometimes the parents do need to remind the kids who's the boss - however offensive that may sound to proponents of warm and fuzzy egalitarianism.

   And yet these cases aren't as simple as parental-rights hawks might think. Herren is an alcoholic and was intoxicated when she hit her daughter (she also smashed a lamp and threw a stereo on the floor); she was convicted by jurors who had all swatted their own kids, and the judge concluded that her actions were more like a drunken brawl than parental discipline.

   There were no such obvious problems in the Skousen case, which probably explains the different outcome. Nevertheless, it seems likely that Deborah Skousen has a nasty temper. According to press reports, the father, Samuel Skousen, seemed fearful of his wife when he testified; after slapping Rebecca, Deborah Skousen gave him "a shove" for being too lenient with the girl. (What do feminists who dismiss female aggression in the home as a misogynist fantasy make of all this?)

   Perhaps Skousen could have benefited from counseling, which the prosecutors had wanted her to accept in exchange for dropping the charges - and which Rebecca claims was her only goal. But surely, Rebecca needed counseling at least as much.

   The problem is that when the state intervenes in the family, it runs roughshod over complex dynamics, slapping the "victim" label on one person and the "perpetrator" label on another. This approach doesn't always fit domestic violence cases involving adults. Where parents and children are concerned, it's a disaster.

Cathy Young is vice-president of the Women's Freedom Network. Her column is published on Wednesday. Write any responses to The Detroit News, Editorial Page, 615 W. Lafayette Blvd., Detroit, Mich. 48226 or fax to (313) 222-6417 or send an e-mail message to letters@detnews.com (Young's e-mail address is 71774.1305@compuserve.com)

Back to Moms, Dads, Kids



TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: children; corporal; dad; democrat; dnc; government; mom; mother; punishment
...interesting.
1 posted on 08/12/2002 2:52:15 PM PDT by vannrox
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: vannrox
The destruction of parental authority is the goal of every liberal, especially the CPS.

In the liberal view, children are the property of the state.

2 posted on 08/12/2002 2:57:18 PM PDT by moyden
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: vannrox
When I was growing up, judges supported parents. But then again, parents could use up to deadly force to discipline their kids, at least in my state. We need a middle ground.
3 posted on 08/12/2002 3:09:50 PM PDT by ladylib
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ladylib
The Skousen case -- wasn't this featured on Court TV several years ago? The mother smacked the kid, the father drove her to school and basically ordered her not to tell school officials. She did anyway (which was her right). The jury aquitted the mother. The daughter got upset at the verdict and walked out. The daughter had a full scholarship to a university, so she didn't need her parents' support and had moved out of her parents' house in her senior year to her sister's house in the school district. I wonder if they reconciled. Court TV should do an update.
4 posted on 08/12/2002 3:19:42 PM PDT by ladylib
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: vannrox
nice hat trick. you are so, far, 3 for 3 today! excellent post!
5 posted on 08/12/2002 3:43:51 PM PDT by goodieD
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ladylib
Article said that "last week" it took the jury an hour to clear Skousen. A lot of these parental trials never make news, so it's unclear how often it is happening.

We personally know a couple that works hard running their own business and try to raise their kids the right way. A couple years ago, when the kids were ages 14 and 16, they got home from school a couple hours before the parents, as usual.

Both of them had forgotten the housekeys. Instead of calling or breaking a small window in back, they kicked the front door in.

Dad arrives home first, and was shocked to see his front door kicked in. He berates the kids and they lip back. He plants one swift kick on the backside of the boy.

Next day, he told the story on the bus, and the bus driver reports it. You know the rest of the story.

Dad gets a 2500$ fine and ordered to not touch the boy again. There goes the kid's allowance for quite awhile...hehehe.

As for Mom? She just says they were lucky that Dad came home first.

This is what gets me. These same people who can't bear the idea of any parental disciple, are the very same people who cozy up to the Islamists, who use flogging, stoning and such for the smallest thing. The very same ones who scream that parents are responsible for crimes their children commit. It all seems crazy.

Here is a link to a thread on 12 Saudi teens flogged for harrassing and flirting with women in a park designated for family use:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/731958/posts
6 posted on 08/12/2002 4:08:24 PM PDT by Selara
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Selara
There was also some poor black single mom who was a correctional officer in a juvenile facility. She saved enough money to buy a house for her kids and herself, as well as a car. She came home after a stressful day of work and one of her kids mouthed off at her. She was so angry with him, she either tied him up or handcuffed him. Then she went to make dinner. By the time dinner was on the table, the cops were at the door, arresting her. The hot-shot district attorney (a woman) was going to make a big deal out of this so she hauled the woman into court and of course overcharged her. She stated in the press she wanted this woman to go to JAIL. The jury convicted her of something like false imprisonment which was a felony offense. The woman can't go back to work because apparently if you are a corrections officer, you can't have a felony conviction. She loses the house and the car. Sonny goes to live with Dad. I don't know if she was put on probation or jailed. I believe "hot-shot" modified her request for jail, however, after receiving poor press. Another family destroyed by the "helping" family services.
7 posted on 08/13/2002 5:30:58 AM PDT by ladylib
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: ladylib
I understand there is much more to the case. The father had to have a PPO taken out against him after the mothers trial. The family nor the county was not honest either, the mother had a counselor and had for sometime before the charges were brought against her. They just refused to tell.

The father had even met with the counselor 6 months before any charges were made against his wife. There had been some abuse against the wife she was not speaking about in public or during her trial.

The mother also put someone in prison several years earlier who assulted one of her children, it appears her pushing the case into court made some people angry with the mother.

Guess, the community wasn't being forth right.
8 posted on 03/06/2005 10:34:25 AM PST by yhml
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: ladylib
I understand there is much more to the case. The father had to have a PPO taken out against him after the mothers trial. The family nor the county was not honest either, the mother had a counselor and had for sometime before the charges were brought against her. They just refused to tell.

The father had even met with the counselor 6 months before any charges were made against his wife. There had been some abuse against the wife she was not speaking about in public or during her trial.

The mother also put someone in prison several years earlier who assulted one of her children, it appears her pushing the case into court made some people angry with the mother.

Guess, the community wasn't being forth right.
9 posted on 03/06/2005 10:35:38 AM PST by yhml
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: vannrox
It should be mention, it was the Mother who was in counseling becasue SHE had been abused, that is more than likely why her husband wouldn't tell.

The prosecutors office knew about the counsleor, but refused to release information, or admit to the existance of the counselor, the younger children had been interviewed, the counselor stated, NO abuse by the mother, so I guess the county decided to not allow them to be called as a witness.

But good for the mother for having the courage to stand up for her child which had been assulted and put the man in prison, even if it made people angry with her. I hear the Dad and his family never attended the trial of the person who assulted their child, only the mother attended, and made sure the man was put in prison.
10 posted on 03/06/2005 12:23:28 PM PST by yhml (Some men lack courage)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson