CHILD PORNOGRAPHY RING ARRESTED

Associated Press .. breaking on the wire | August 9, 2002 | Connie Cass (AP)

[Texaggie79]

Playing with yourself in the bathtub is not sex.

True, and therein lies the problem. Today's society equates sex to be as harmless as playing with yourself in the bathtub. And without a God, they would be right. Heck, some species of monkeys fondle each other's genitals as a greeting. It would be no different if we did it, if God was not in the equation.

[Texaggie79]

IOW, what makes sex or sexual activity (such as non penetrational sex) so "serious". Take away the fact that there are STD's it's just an activity between 2 or more people, no different than shaking hands. True if there is a pubescent male and female together in that activity, then the possibility of procreation enters in, however there are many ways to avoid that.

[RnMomof7]

Hang um...I find it interesting that the VanDam defenders thought it unthinkable that swinging parents might be perverts with preverted friends..

Here are parents utilizing their children for the sexual pleasure of others..

I guess is sex has no deeper meaning than a hobby you share with friends ..ya share your wife ..ya share your kids...

[Houmatt]

I don't know. I am just waiting for these scumsucking b*stards to claim all their kiddy porn was "virtual", so they cannot be prosecuted.

Otherwise, given a "life" sentence with the general population sounds mighty good.

[Frapster]

You personify the very reason someone a short while back was bemoaning the shortness of these threads. Congratulations.

I earned that one - rebuke heard and received. Thanks.

However, I was (in my sarcasm) skipping way ahead of the discussion. Of course let's also get way ahead of the point here and just go ahead and call me a pathologic religious nut. I do believe that the Divine speaks and that He has spoken and it's not so hard to know His will on such issues. For those who continue to seek the Truth it sounds pompous and arrogant for me to make such a claim and I'm sorry for that too - but it's where I stand. So - in making that admission of myself I repeat the question in more respectful terms.

You speak of truth and I get the impression you speak of absolutes. I would truly love to know (not matter how long it takes) the true foundation of those truths. Who or what is your source? Is that a fair question?

[Frapster]

Since I don't believe that "rational" and "relativistic" are synonyous it appears that we don't even have a common language with which to continue this discussion.

Ok then, for the sake of argument I amend my question and promise that I will not fill it with any sarcasm. My query's are genuine interest.

REPHRASED STATEMENT: From a rational viewpoint I don't believe you can prove it without falling into arguments that are relative in nature.

[eno_]

I'm not a libertarian. This is the real deal: real kids exploited and raped to make porn. Sounds like a death-penalty case.

Now do the anti-Constitution JBTs understand this is different from virtual kiddie porn?

[headsonpikes]

Misidentification of the reality of sex is not an argument.

It is the existential/spiritual context of sex that gives it meaning and substance; pre-adult persons cannot grasp this context, no matter how precocious they may be.

All IMHO, of course.

[Frapster]

Bottom line: if you must resort to the bible as the sole crutch and underpinning of your argument, you have already lost.

I will, as it befits the situation, refer to the Bible to help people understand why I believe the way I do. However, and I'll go back and look, I have not done so as yet. I have no need as I do not feel that my moral stance is based on a scholarly review of scripture but instead on an innate knowledge by virtue of being created in the image of God.

I also find it interesting that as soon as the notion of "God" is brought into the picture people everywhere decry the argument as void and invalid when all I am doing is trying to illustrate that the mere existance of philosophical question points to the presence of purposeful and personal designer. But of course such things are relegated to superstitious nonsense simply because it incorporates the notion of the divine.

Yet at the same time you assert the notion of Universal Truths and allude to various philosophers who have wrestled with these same issues but each in there turn have "improved" upon the others thoughts or rejected them in some fashion for their own understanding implying not that any or all of them are wrong but that they have not completely settled upon an answer that satisfies their hunger for the truth.

As for there being moral people who are agnostics or of another religion is no surprise. Again, why should we be surprised when that which is created exemplifies the traits of the one after whom they are fashioned?

Of course you'll now say I'm offering circular reasoning and that I cannot be argued with because I rely upon some nebulous and immeasurable quantity. So again, I ask, please help me understand the nature of your moral truths - I think you'll find I'm quite patient and a willing listener despite my earlier sarcasm.

[tpaine]

Perhaps a better question might be: "is there any action that is intrinsically wrong?"
________________________________

Of course. - ALL actions that violate the 'golden rule' are intrinsically wrong.

--Do NOT do onto others, what you would not have done onto yourself.

Engaging in sex with anyone that is unable to consent, for any reason, regardless of their actual age, is NOT what any sane person would have 'done onto themselves', or onto their minor children.

I can't quite understand why so many here agonize so much over such a simple common sense issue.

[Great Dane]

I'd be willing to bet that the Euros get very light sentances or get off completely. They don't take this sort of thing very seriously over there. They probably only investigated at all because of US pressure.

Unless you know of which you speak...... you shouldn't. What makes you think they don't take kiddy-porn seriously in Europe, and what makes you think the US swine involved in this, is any better than the EU swine.

[Cultural Jihad]

Clovis police looking for info on possible photos of kids

By Gwendolyn Crump -- Bee Staff Writer
Published 2:15 a.m. PDT Saturday, June 15, 2002

SACRAMENTO -- Clovis police detectives want to talk with families of children who had their pictures taken in any of Lloyd Emmerson's chiropractic offices in Sacramento -- 3811 Florin Road or 4237 South Market Court.

Emmerson, a 45-year-old Clovis resident, remains in the Fresno County Jail, facing federal child-exploitation charges. A federal grand jury indicted Emmerson in February on charges that included transmission of photos of children over the Internet.

If convicted, Emmerson could face 35 years in prison and fines of up to a $250,000.

Anyone whose children posed for photographs for Emmerson is asked to call Detective John Weaver with the Clovis Police Department at (559) 297-2516

---

Source: http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/crime/story/3216066p-4255589c.html

[tpaine]

Would you please post the list of moral truths? That would be so helpful. Thanks.
_______________________________

No need for a list. - The golden rule is said to have been part of every recorded culture.
- Strange, -- you aren't aware of it, or is it that you just don't agree that it is the basis of all moral truth?

[Cultural Jihad]

Posted on Thu, Feb. 21, 2002

Two San Diego men allegedly linked to child pornography ring

SAN DIEGO (AP) - Two men arrested on child molestation and child pornography charges were part of an international ring uncovered by a Swedish watchdog group, authorities said.

Paul Whitmore of San Diego pleaded innocent Wednesday to 23 counts of child molestation and child pornography charges involving two girls ages 10 and 13. He is being held on $2 million bail.

Brooke Rowland, 40, of Poway is scheduled to be arraigned Thursday on similar charges involving five children. He is being held on $1 million bail.

San Diego District Attorney Paul Pfingst said Whitmore, a child and family counselor, allowed Rowland to abuse one of the girls he allegedly molested.

``They're exchanging kids,'' Pfingst said.

Prosecutors said the two men were part of a child pornography ring in which they exchanged pictures and video of themselves molesting girls to other Internet users.

Authorities began their investigation in November after the Swedish affiliate of the child advocacy group, Save The Children, told them about the child pornography they found on the Internet, court documents showed.

Police in Denmark, Germany and the Fresno suburb of Clovis have arrested people who were allegedly part of the ring. Their names were not immediately known.

San Diego police arrested Whitmore on Jan. 27 and found cameras, computers, photos and videotapes inside his home. Also discovered were leather restraints, rope and handcuffs, according to court records.

Whitmore lost his job as a child counselor and computer expert at the Stein Education Center after he was arrested. Authorities said none of the abused children were students at the school.

Source: http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/2717378.htm

[VA Advogado]

I guess is sex has no deeper meaning than a hobby you share with friends ..ya share your wife ..ya share your kids...

Same swingers, different jungle, you know?

[VA Advogado]

A belated thanks for pinging me, VA. ;^]

Ditto for your response. I agree with you.

[VA Advogado]

You are free to keep those dirty pictures under your mattress, however, VA.

That's where I keep your dossier with the virtual pictures of you in leg irons and handcuffs :)

[Frapster]

No need for a list. - The golden rule is said to have been part of every recorded culture. - Strange, -- you aren't aware of it, or is it that you just don't agree that it is the basis of all moral truth?

I don't agree that it's the basis of all moral truth - I believe that God is the basis of all moral truth and that something is true by him and through him. Moral truth did not beget God - and by virtue of God being God it is therefore not unreasonable to conclude that which he created should exemplify his nature. Thanks for allowing me to bring this up. At least we have one person willing to discuss moral absolutes in context of spirtual reality.

[tpaine]

No need for a list. - The golden rule is said to have been part of every recorded culture. - Strange, -- you aren't aware of it, or is it that you just don't agree that it is the basis of all moral truth?

I don't agree that it's the basis of all moral truth - I believe that God is the basis of all moral truth and that something is true by him and through him.

Hey, you believe your gods truth, - I'll believe in my version of truth, the golden rule. OK?

Moral truth did not beget God - and by virtue of God being God it is therefore not unreasonable to conclude that which he created should exemplify his nature. Thanks for allowing me to bring this up.

Whatever. - That kinda stuff really belongs on the religion forum tho.

At least we have one person willing to discuss moral absolutes in context of spirtual reality.

Thanks, but I don't see reality as being spiritual. We have a mind, & using common sense, we came up with the concept of the golden rule. No big deal.
Must of happened thousands of years before the much more sophisticated concept of only one true god.

[tpaine]

To: RnMomof7
I guess is sex has no deeper meaning than a hobby you share with friends ..ya share your wife ..ya share your kids...

Same swingers, different jungle, you know?
195 posted on 8/9/02 6:59 PM Pacific by VA Advogado
_________________________________

You two are realy sicko. -- Take it to private reply.