IS THIS A PERSON?

8/5/02 | jwalsh07

[jwalsh07]

Looking for opinions.

[TaxPayer2000]

Main Entry: per.son
Pronunciation: 'p&r-s[^&]n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French persone, from Latin persona
actor's mask, character in a play, person, probably from Etruscan phersu
mask, from Greek prosOpa, plural of prosOpon face, mask -- more at
PROSOPOPOEIA
Date: 13th century
1 : HUMAN, INDIVIDUAL -- sometimes used in combination especially by
those who prefer to avoid man in compounds applicable to both sexes
2 : a character or part in or as if in a play : GUISE
3 a : one of the three modes of being in the Trinitarian Godhead as
understood by Christians b : the unitary personality of Christ that unites
the divine and human natures
4 a archaic : bodily appearance b : the body of a human being; also : the
body and clothing
5 : the personality of a human being : SELF
6 : one (as a human being, a partnership, or a corporation) that is
recognized by law as the subject of rights and duties
7 : reference of a segment of discourse to the speaker, to one spoken to,
or to one spoken of as indicated by means of certain pronouns or in many
languages by verb inflection
- per.son.hood /-"hud/ noun
- in person : in one's bodily presence

Main Entry: first person
Function: noun
Date: 1520
1 a : a set of linguistic forms (as verb forms, pronouns, and inflectional
affixes) referring to the speaker or writer of the utterance in which they
occur b : a linguistic form belonging to such a set c : reference of a
linguistic form to the speaker or writer of the utterance in which it occurs
2 : a style of discourse marked by general use of verbs and pronouns of
the first person

Main Entry: per.son-hour
Pronunciation: 'p&r-s[^&]n-"au(-&)r
Function: noun
Date: 1975
: a unit of one hour's work by one person

Main Entry: second person
Function: noun
Date: 1672
1 a : a set of linguistic forms (as verb forms, pronouns, and inflectional
affixes) referring to the person or thing addressed in the utterance in which
they occur b : a linguistic form belonging to such a set
2 : reference of a linguistic form to the person or thing addressed in the
utterance in which it occurs

Main Entry: third person
Function: noun
Date: circa 1586
1 a : a set of linguistic forms (as verb forms, pronouns, and inflectional
affixes) referring to one that is neither the speaker or writer of the utterance
in which they occur nor the one to whom that utterance is addressed b : a
linguistic form belonging to such a set
2 : reference of a linguistic form to one that is neither the speaker or writer
of the utterance in which it occurs nor the one to whom that utterance is
addressed

[Torie]

So at the risk of being a pain in the ass

You are into risk too?

[Bowana]

You believe that a baby in the womb is not a distinct and seperate human being? Based on what?

Because the fetus depends on the mother for life and even though the fetus "Could" survive seperate from the mother, the fetus isn't, so until the fetus does, the fetus isn't an Individual.

[MHGinTN]

Is this fetus an individual? No.

No, a fetus is not a person until birth.

posted by Bowana The fetus (little child) has been a distinct, individual human being from moments after conception. The individual in the 4D image IS a distinct individual human being. As for your second assertion, well, I wouldn't want to be you when you meet your Creator! [HINT: have you ever heard of a human woman being pregnant with other than a human preborn baby?... At what point during the gestational period in Mommy's body does the individual become nameable, identifiable sexwise, testable medically, cureable with corrective surgery?... Be very careful with that last clause.]

[jwalsh07]

Well, it is if it's.............wanted

If you're not wanted, can they suck your brains out? I think we might need a more objective criteria, eh?

[Double Tap]

Ok, here's the question. Is this baby a person?

Yes, isn't it rather obvious???

[jwalsh07]

Because the fetus depends on the mother for life and even though the fetus "Could" survive seperate from the mother, the fetus isn't, so until the fetus does, the fetus isn't an Individual.

Well, Bowana, all of my grandkids are under 3 years old, all 5 of them. They are totally dependent on their Moms and Dads and could not survive without them. Now I know Peter Singer wants to expand abortion to about one but you've passed way beyond that.

[Bowana]

Main Entry: 1in·di·vid·u·al

1 obsolete : INSEPARABLE

2 a : of, relating to, or distinctively associated with an individual b : being an individual or existing as an indivisible whole

3 : existing as a distinct entity : SEPARATE

[jwalsh07]

Johnny, I would like your opinion here. Thanks.

[mamelukesabre]

What about a newborn baby that has it's face attached to it's mothers teat?!?

I don't see the distictinon. One is connected via cord, and one is connected via nipple. You really think one is so much more self reliant than the other? I think they are both pretty much in the same category.

[Bowana]

Well, Bowana, all of my grandkids are under 3 years old, all 5 of them. They are totally dependent on their Moms and Dads and could not survive without them.

YES, but they are SEPERATE INDIVIDUALS.

[jwalsh07]

You are into risk too?

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. :-}

[TaxPayer2000]

Main Entry: 1in·di·vid·u·al

Function: adjective

Etymology: Medieval Latin individualis, from Latin individuus indivisible, from in- + dividuus divided, from dividere to divide

Date: 15th century

1 obsolete : INSEPARABLE

2 a : of, relating to, or distinctively associated with an individual

b : being an individual or existing as an indivisible whole

c : intended for one person

3 : existing as a distinct entity : SEPARATE

4 : having marked individuality

synonym see SPECIAL, CHARACTERISTIC - in·di·vid·u·al·ly adverb

[Sungirl]

20 month old babies have survived quite nicely outside the womb

Good news. HUH???
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

PERSON
n.

1. A living human. Often used in combination: chairperson; spokesperson; salesperson.
2. An individual of specified character: a person of importance.
3. The composite of characteristics that make up an individual personality; the self.
4. The living body of a human: searched the prisoner's person.
5. Physique and general appearance.
6. Law. A human or organization with legal rights and duties.
7. Christianity. Any of the three separate individualities of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, as distinguished from the essence of the Godhead that unites them.
8. Grammar.
   1. Any of three groups of pronoun forms with corresponding verb inflections that distinguish the speaker (first person), the individual addressed (second person), and the individual or thing spoken of (third person).
   2. Any of the different forms or inflections expressing these distinctions.
9. A character or role, as in a play; a guise: “Well, in her person, I say I will not have you” (Shakespeare).

TO answer your question...I'll have to plead ignorance like you....

[jwalsh07]

YES, but they are SEPERATE INDIVIDUALS.

Nah, three of them were in the same womb at the same time. They all were individuals then and they are now. Alyssa was small and nuzzled. Andrew was a kicker and Derrick was already into NASCAR.

[Bernard]

In that case, children aren't required to be a person until they are 5 years old, which is when you are required to have a Social Security Number for them. If a fetus is issued an SSN, does that make him a person?

[Torie]

I think your point of view is that you are against involuntary separation of a viable fetus from a physological disturbed "mother" who wishes an early final exit for same. Does that about sum it up?

[jwalsh07]

TO answer your question...I'll have to plead ignorance like you....

LOL, no guts, no glory. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

OK, try this one on for size. If its not a person, just what the heck is it?

[Sungirl]

All persons born or naturalized in the United States

This fetus hasn't been born yet. It doesn't qualify under this.