Catholic Protest Group Leader Stirs Up Controversy

FoxNews ^ | Aug 2, 2002 | William LaJeunesse

[AmishDude]

LOS ANGELES

[AmishDude]

I love that last line.

[dighton]

Quote:

Unlike grassroots groups, funded by thousands of membership dues, records show the organization receives most of its money from liberal foundations. Its big-money donations include $375,000 from billionaire Warren Buffett; $600,000 from the Hewlett Foundation; $1.6 million from the MacArthur Foundation; $3.8 million from the Packard Foundation; and $4.4 million from the Ford Foundation.

Other notables include Ted Turner, who is known for mocking Catholics as "Jesus freaks" for marking Ash Wednesday. The Playboy Foundation and the Sunnen Foundation, a manufacturer of contraceptive foam, are also notable contributors

[Orual]

Catholics for Free Choice

Laughable. There ain't no such animal and these phonies know it.

[jaz.357]

...President" Frances Kissling"..Sounds like FRENCH KISSING!!Are they for THAT also???

[Tony Niar Brain]

I say this as a lifelong Catholic.

I think the Catholic Chuch has becomed totally mired in corruption, similar to the way the Boston FBI office became mired to protect Whitey Bulger. One (or several) coverup leads to another, corruption begets corruption.

Now, the Catholic Church needs to admit it is fallible and is responsible for sins of the highest order. The fact that Bernard Law still remains a Cardinal is a smack of the face of God; He cannot possibly be that stupid.

[crazykatz]

"Catholics for free choice" should just make their "free choice" and LEAVE the Church that they disagree with.

[thinktwice]

Heard on the Los Angeles news this morning ...

Cardinal Mahoney is about to dedicate his new $193,000,000. 00 cathedral.

Among the highlights, the place has huge bronze doors -- I think the door weight mentioned was 25 tons each.

Is the cathedral's purpose to honor God?

I doubt it.

[Romulus]

Catholics might do worse than to write a few letters asking why these foundations fund the subversion of the Catholic Church. Since liberal private foundations don't give a flip for the opinions of the unwashed, I'd suggest questions be directed to the Ford Motor Company, Hewlett-Packard, and Berkshire Hathaway -- all public companies that can't be completely contemptuous of their public image, and which may (who knows?) be able to bring some discreet pressure to bear on the foundations more or less associated with them.

[aculeus]

Its big-money donations include $375,000 from billionaire Warren Buffett;

Our Teflon capitalist. He owns (thru Berkshire Hathaway) Kirby Vacuums which preys on the poor ... the $2000 machines are sold door-to-door by lying salesmen. Over 1 thousand complaints filed nationwide but no one ever connects Saint Warren to this slimy company.

[aculeus]

Its big-money donations include $375,000 from billionaire Warren Buffett;

Our Teflon capitalist. He owns (thru Berkshire Hathaway) Kirby Vacuums which preys on the poor ... the $2000 machines are sold door-to-door by lying salesmen. Over 1 thousand complaints filed nationwide but no one ever connects Saint Warren to this slimy company.

[dighton]

Buffett ... Kirby Vacuums

I'd strangle Saint Warren for those hideous Geico commercials, then revive him and boil him in oil for the faux-folksy See's ads.

[Orual]

I'd strangle Saint Warren for those hideous Geico commercials.

Synergy?

[Free_at_last_-2001]

"Catholics for free choice" should just make their "free choice" and LEAVE the Church that they disagree with. - no they cannot do that, they must destroy from within - while their comrades attack from outside! - liberal agenda.

[phil1750]

Catholics for a free choice IS not a Catholic organization, and is not made up of practicing Catholics. They have only stole the name.

[phil1750]

IS NOT

[AmishDude]

What's your point vis-à-vis this article?

[nickcarraway]

This is the only organization that the DNC lists for Catholics: DNC Links

[AmishDude]

:) I should mention that I found the link through NRO's Corner.

[nickcarraway]

Vegetarians for a Free Choice

Gilbert Magazine ^ | 4/2002 | DAN COYNE

How can any father look his four-year-old son in the eye and tell him that he cannot be both a practicing vegetarian and a hot dog lover? Why should a working mom, who is deeply committed to the principles of vegetarianism, feel guilty simply for snacking on an occasional beef jerky? How can any movement or organization systematically exclude those who, for medical reasons, must eat a diet rich in poultry and beef?

For a long time these questions haunted me until one day I stumbled upon the answer — Vegetarians for a Free Choice. Tossing off the shackles of the traditional vegetarian movement, Vegetarians for a Free Choice seeks to bring "choice" back to eating.

For too long, an extremist group of anti-meat ideologues has attempted to dictate what defines vegetarianism. These extremists and their overly legalistic view of vegetarianism have discouraged many of us from joining a movement we might otherwise find appealing. In fact, recent polls indicate that over 72% of those who currently consider themselves non-vegetarians would consider becoming vegetarians if they were simply permitted to retain the right to eat meat.

Well, those of us who would like to become a vegetarian while still having an occasional Big Mac now have an option — Vegetarians for a Free Choice. VFC is a nonjudgmental, nondiscriminatory vegetable eating organization open to meat eaters and non-meat eaters alike. VFC respects your personal "right to choose" when it comes to making meat eating decisions. VFC believes it is your right to define what vegetarianism means to you.

As expected, the zealots in the anti-meat-eating wing of the vegetarian movement have already risen up to condemn VFC. "This cafeteria style vegetarianism is completely bogus," they claim. "You cannot pick and choose your own rules for being a vegetarian." Aside from being completely undemocratic, these critics ignore numerous inconsistencies already existing in the movement.

Some of the so-called leaders eat fish, while others do not. Some of the so-called leaders eat animal products like milk and cheese, while others do not. Who, then, are these hypocrites to tell me I can no longer continue to eat my cheese steaks while still calling myself a vegetarian? No longer should we allow these unelected vegetarian leaders to impose upon us their outmoded notions of vegetarianism.

Vegetarianism should be open to all Americans regardless of their eating habits or preferences. Discrimination based upon what one eats is just as pernicious as racism, sexism or homophobia. It is time to set aside our own personal biases when it comes to eating and establish a vegetarian movement we can all be proud of. Now is the time for a more inclusive and tolerant vegetarianism.

Thanks to VFC, Americans no longer have to choose between their Vegetarianism and their fried chicken. They can have both. I encourage all of you to sponsor a Vegetarians for Choice Pig Roast in your local community. If interested, you can even e-mail me for my wife's famous Spotted Owl Casserole recipe.

Daniel P. Coyne is the President of Cleveland Right to Life and the President of the Cleveland-based St. Athanasius Chapter of Catholics United for the Faith. He recently helped co-found Hail Holy Queen Communications, a nonprofit organization committed to bringing Catholic radio to Northeastern Ohio. Daniel can be reached at danielpcoyne@aol.com.

[aculeus]

ABC manages to conceal St Warren's ownership in the following summary of their recent Primetime segment on Kirby. His name wasn't mentioned in the program either. (He is BTW the second richest man in the USA per Forbes.)


Kirby salespeople usually give a demonstration of their product — that can last for hours. (ABCNEWS.com)

Secrets of the Hard Sell

When Does a Persuasive Pitch Go Over the Line?


April 4

— Some door-to-door salesmen will go to great lengths to make a sale.

Charles Robinson, for example, says that when he was an independent distributor and salesman for Kirby carpet-cleaning vacuums, he sold units to people who didn't have carpet — and even to one customer who didn't have electricity.

An estimated $1 billion worth of Kirbys are sold every year. They are sold exclusively through independent distributors who buy vacuums from the company and then sell them to the public in their homes. Across the nation, Primetime uncovered more than 1,000 consumer complaints about Kirby vacuum cleaner salespeople. ABCNEWS' Chris Wallace conducted a hidden-camera investigation to find out how far some salespeople will go to convince homeowners to purchase a vacuum and its accessories — which can cost upwards of $2,000.

Feeling Pressured

Karen Muesch, 44, says a Kirby salesman quoted her a price of $2,700 after giving her a demonstration of the vacuum.

"I said, 'There is no way I can spend $2,700 on a vacuum cleaner,'" remembers Muesch, who owns her own business and was home alone when the salesman came to the door.

At that point, she says, the salesman's manager showed up, and the two of them ganged up on her.

"I just felt so trapped by them and pressured," says Muesch. "It was unbelievable."

Muesch says she finally gave in and bought the vacuum after a five-hour sales pitch: "I had a headache and I did sign the contract. I had myself a Kirby machine for $1,100."

Some Kirby salespeople have been accused of deceiving people to get into their home by saying they've won a free carpet cleaning, of making sales calls that last up to six hours, and of targeting the elderly.

Footage from a 1994 meeting made by former independent distributors captured salespeople making fun of how old and sick their customers were. The Kirby company said it did not endorse the tape and no longer does business with the distributor who made it.

Targeting the Elderly?

Last year, the state of Wisconsin sued 14 Kirby distributors for deceptive practices. Wisconsin's Secretary of Consumer Protection, Jim Harsdorf, says that Kirby's distributors targeted the elderly. While admitting no wrongdoing, the distributors agreed to pay the state $56,000, and to give refunds to any customers who were treated unfairly.

Elizabeth Wilker, 76, was sold a vacuum for $1,200. Her son Larry thinks the salesman took advantage of his mother.

"I think my mother was scammed," he says. According to Wilker, not only was the purchase made three weeks before she was hospitalized for mental illness, but Elizabeth already owned a Kirby that she rarely used.

Former distributor Tim Gottschalk admits that he made thousands of dollars off one elderly woman. "Over a 12-month period, she ended up buying 13 different sweepers," he says, adding that he believes the woman — who kept trading each Kirby in for what she thought was a newer model — had Alzheimers.

Kirby says these kinds of tactics violate company policy. But Gottschalk, Robinson and other former distributors say these practices reflect the aggressive culture that the company rewards.

"You don't leave that house until you get the deal, and that's what you're taught," says Robinson, who was forced out of the company in 1997 and sued Kirby in a dispute over pricing, which was later settled out of court.

Both Robinson and Gottschalk say they regret their actions.

Hidden-Camera Investigation

To see how some Kirby salespeople can get consumers to buy a vacuum they don't want or can't afford, three women in three different states let Primetime wire their homes with hidden cameras before calling Kirby distributors.

Several of the salespeople made similar pitches, telling the customers that they were just one sale away from winning a free trip.

"When we'd go out," says Gottschalk, "we'd say we needed one more sale." In fact, he says, "It was just a pitch … do whatever it takes to get that Kirby sale."

The real key to the sales pitch, according to former distributors, is the power of their "demo." Salespeople use the vacuum and then show the customers how much dirt it picks up.

"You take the dirt, stick it in their face," says Robinson. "And there's been dealers literally stick it within three, four inches of their face and say look at that stuff."

The secret, former salespeople say, is that the little white pads, which pick up dirt, would also work with other vacuum cleaners — not just a Kirby.

Then, when it's time to negotiate the price, Kirby salespeople are happy to take trade-ins to lower the price of the vacuum. According to Robinson, some salespeople asked for personal items such as guns or gold coins. He says this can be a way to make even more money off customers.

That's not the only way to make a sale. When dealing with the elderly, some Kirby salespeople looked for a special source of money — Social Security checks — even accommodating the arrival of a potential customer's check.

A Three-Hour Pitch

Primetime watched as a young salesman named Dan tried to sell a Kirby to 71-year-old Carita Fisher. He demonstrated the Kirby's features, using one attachment after another, and cleaning everything in sight.

Forty minutes into the demo, Fisher asked the price and found it was $1898. More than an hour and a half later — two hours and 21 minutes into the sales pitch — Dan was still cleaning and still selling.

Fisher said it was a bad time to make a big purchase because her husband had just had a stroke.

"Sure, sure, sure," said Dan. Then, without even a pause, he said, "Well, let me pick up these suds. Do you think you would want the shampooer, or would that be something you could add on?"

Fisher was dumbfounded by his response. "He just sort of ignored it, like it wasn't important … I thought boy, he doesn't give a darn about anything."

Two hours and 49 minutes later, Fisher said: "I'm just going to say no for right now, but I'm going to keep your name."

Dan answered curtly: "My name is not going to clean the carpet.

After Fisher said she was not interested in making a purchase 17 times — and three hours into Dan's pitch — he left without a sale.

The Company's Response

The Kirby company turned down repeated requests for an on-camera interview. In a series of letters, however, the company said it has no "day to day control" over independent distributors and salespeople, but requires them to "operate legally and ethically."

Pointing out that last year alone the company "terminated 14 distributors" for "unacceptable" practices," Kirby wrote: "We take seriously over-aggressive sales behavior."

But that didn't stop Dan, who we caught up with after he spent almost two hours at another woman's home.

When Primetime confronted him about his sales practices, he tried to grab the camera and said "I don't want this in here."

Asked if this was how he was taught to sell a Kirby, Dan answered, "You can talk to our lawyers."


Copyright © 2002 ABC News Internet Ventures.