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Will Homeland Security Turn Into Homeland Spying?
www.eagleforum.org ^ | July 31, 2002 | Phyllis Schlafly

Posted on 08/02/2002 2:00:33 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe

If Bill Clinton were still in the White House, Republicans would be on the march against Bigger Government and Bigger Spending. Unfortunately, too many prominent Republicans are cottoning up to increased federal control and the increased spending that goes with it.

One of the five components of the Citizen Corps, created by the President in January, is Operation TIPS (Terrorism Information and Prevention System). This is designed to be "a nationwide program to help thousands of American truck drivers, letter carriers, train conductors, ship captains, and utility workers report potential terrorist activity."

Operation TIPS calls on Americans, in their daily course of work activities, to monitor and report "suspicious" activities to a central reporting center. You can bet that all those "suspicious" activities will be entered on a national database available to the prying eyes of federal bureaucrats.

Majority Leader Dick Armey objects; the Homeland legislation his committee just reported out specifically prohibits implementation of Operation TIPS. And the U.S. Postal Service announced that our friendly letter carriers are not going to double as government spies.

When we observe something illegal or potentially dangerous, of course we should sound an alarm, as the airplane passenger did when he saw his seatmate lighting a fuse in his shoe. But common-sense alertness is a far cry from institutionalizing a federal system of informers.

The President's 90-page National Strategy for Homeland Security (NSHS) released on July 16 sets us on the path of morphing driver's licenses into a national ID card, a longtime goal of big-government types who hope that our fears about a repeat of 9/11 give them the opportunity to push this thoroughly un-American idea. Highlighting the diversity of state laws, the NSHS includes a vague requirement to "coordinate suggested minimum standards for state driver's licenses."

Congress actually passed legislation in 1996 requiring driver's licenses to contain a Social Security number that could be read visually or electronically. After the voters found out that this provision would turn driver's licenses into national ID cards, it was repealed in 1999.

The Homeland legislation reported out of Rep. Armey's committee includes this caveat: "Nothing in this Act shall be construed to authorize the development of a national identification system or card."

Instead of trying to take over driver's licenses, which are and should be under state jurisdiction, the federal government should be cleaning up the irresponsible way it issues visas to people from terrorist countries. We do need an identification system for aliens with smart ID cards to assure that they live up to the terms of their entry and go home when their visa time is up.

The Fourth of July murderer at the Los Angeles airport was in the United States because he took advantage of the now-expired 254(i) amnesty loophole (which, unfortunately, President Bush is trying to get Congress to revive), and his wife won legal residence through Ted Kennedy's Visa Diversity Lottery Law. A good start on Homeland Security would be to deep-six every kind of amnesty and repeal the Diversity Lottery.

Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and the Pentagon were surprised to learn that the NSHS calls for a "plan for military support to civil authorities." Military support, such as through the National Guard, is to include "technical support and assistance to law enforcement, assisting in the restoration of law and order, loaning specialized equipment, and assisting in consequence management."

Those dangerous concepts remind us of the use of the military (including tanks) against civilians that resulted in the 1993 incineration of dozens of children at the Branch Davidian home near Waco, Texas. If U.S. troops are to defend us against terrorists, they should be used to prevent suspicious aliens from coming across our borders, not for police work against U.S. citizens.

Gen. Ralph E. Eberhart, the head of Bush's newly established Northern Command for domestic security, said we should review the Posse Comitatus law "if we think it ties our hands." But tying the hands of the military over civilians is what Posse Comitatus is supposed to do.

In 1998 the Clinton Administration proposed a federal regulation called Know Your Customer, which would have turned your friendly local banker into a snoop reporting to the federal database called FinCen any deviation from what the bank decided is your deposits/withdrawal profile. The American people responded with 300,000 angry e-mail criticisms and the regulation was withdrawn.

The Bush Administration's proposed regulations to implement the USA Patriot Act passed last year are even more intrusive. Some people seem to think it's acceptable to profile the bank accounts of law-abiding citizens but not acceptable to profile Middle Eastern Muslim aliens who might hijack an airplane.

Americans must not allow the 9/11 terrorists to turn America into a police state. The job of the Federal Government is to stop suspicious people at the border.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: diversitylottery; homelandsecurity; nationalid; patriotact; possecomitatus; tips
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To: Tailgunner Joe
As long as we all spy on Arabs-Muslims.
41 posted on 08/02/2002 9:18:16 PM PDT by TJFLSTRAT
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To: MissAmericanPie
What are you people talking about? The TIPs program has been thrown out. Its no longer viable. Let's hope the next WTC tragity doesn't happen because some civil losertarian didn't want to infringe on a terrorist's right to privacy.
42 posted on 08/02/2002 9:57:59 PM PDT by PolishProud
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To: PolishProud
Your sure it's dead? The last I heard the administration was going ahead with it despite the congress. A TIPS line for any average American to call in information on is one thing, deputizing citizen spies is another.
43 posted on 08/02/2002 10:00:24 PM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: dcwusmc
And I think your attitude does YOU little credit. We have known a ton of vets who still LOVE this land, and would defend it to this day. Is it perfect, NO. But it is the best in the world. And the blood of our family and friends is proof enough for us. We are enjoying the freedoms we do today, and the life we do enjoy, because we live in such a great nation. We won't take that for granted, and yeah, we also served. But we don't HATE this country, the way you are coming across as doing.

I realize that this is the inernet, and that facial expressions and tone inflections are a vital component of communicating that are missing in this form of expression. But your sentiments do NOT reflect ours.
44 posted on 08/02/2002 10:07:21 PM PDT by Vets_Husband_and_Wife
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To: Doctor Stochastic
Nu uh.. we used to sing songs about how "gay" we were.. and it used to mean "happy". :o)

Show me where it was used as a homosexual term 100 years ago, k? Then I'll believe it.
45 posted on 08/02/2002 10:08:40 PM PDT by Vets_Husband_and_Wife
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To: Vets_Husband_and_Wife
Let's take a quick look at the government's record on expansion of their projects, the Income Tax, Social Security, the FBI, the BATF, Gun control, the Department of Education, FEMA, EPA, the war on poverty, the war on drugs, to name but a few.

Considering this I can't trust the government to restrain from turning a National Neighborhood Watch into a Spy on your Neighbor program that would make Stalin, and Hitler envious.

46 posted on 08/02/2002 10:13:48 PM PDT by c-b 1
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To: Tailgunner Joe

47 posted on 08/02/2002 10:21:00 PM PDT by NWO Slave
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To: MissAmericanPie
"They are talking about deputizing, telephone and cable repairmen, postmen, who ever else, plumbers? to look for "terrorists".

SHOW me where it says they will be "deputizing" them. SHOW ME!!

That they will put out instructions on "what" to look for, is a good thing. I can't believe the hysteria regarding this.

What do you fear? What?? What MORE proof do you people need??

Do you break the laws? Are YOU aiding and abetting our enemies? Get REAL!! Do you even know or phanthom what has happened? I'm not only talking about 9/11, but the infrastructure that has been taking place in our country for YEARS.

The Dateline show tonight was EXCELLENT. They did ask however, why our country hasn't done anything about the things they exposed. I say it is because of people with attitudes like YOURS. Now, when they are trying to figure out how to UNDO the damage that has been done, how to EXPOSE THOSE WHO ARE HERE, ON OUR SHORES WITH ILL INTENT, YOU would cry what about MY NEEDS?.. what about ME?

Well, I could tell you what I think of your kind of mindless robotic responses, but I won't. I will stand firm in supporting this Administration, because we are blessed to have the brightest and the best at the helm. We are unbeliveably lucky.

Did you happen to watch Dateline tonight? It was titled "Trail of Terror". I suggest you see if you can get a copy of it somehow, or a transcript. God FORBID we should be watching people like the el Amir's. Just keep your head in the sand. I'm sure you are finding comfort in the dark silent confines of it.

It is JUST FRIGGIN unbelievable that people are as naive to what is happening as they are. Just friggin UN-believable.

48 posted on 08/02/2002 10:24:08 PM PDT by Vets_Husband_and_Wife
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To: Tailgunner Joe

49 posted on 08/02/2002 10:24:38 PM PDT by NWO Slave
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To: c-b 1
Let's take a quick look at the government's record on expansion of their projects, the Income Tax, Social Security, the FBI, the BATF, Gun control, the Department of Education, FEMA, EPA, the war on poverty, the war on drugs, to name but a few.

So lets see,.. right off the bat, I'm saying.. so whats his/your problem? President Bush is trying to pass income tax reform, and rebates, and less taxes paid. Social Security has been robbed for years, at least this administration is trying to figure out tangible ways to change things. They put it out there for debate, and we discuss it. Whats "bad" about that? And btw, it would have been FINE, if people had kept their dirty little paws out of it, instead of aying for PORK BARRELL crappola with it!!

The FBI needs MORE AGENTS, and the ability to DO THEIR JOB, without the Senate, or Congress taking away their ability to do so.

As to the BATF, you need to watch the Dateline show that was on tonight. Guess YOU think they are ALL BAD. I don't think so.. In fact, I'm positive they aren't. Again, lets just slam them all.. just like when there is a rogue cop.. lets just friggin blame them all.. really smart!!!

Gun control..not for it, and I feel if all those who are for our rights would get off their dead asses, and fight more for our rights, it wouldn't even be a topic. But lets just keep blasting away at our Government, and the people willing to die and protect it,... and like I said, sit on your fat butts, and yeah.. the liberals will eventually take that away from us. Just like they promote MEChA. Unbelievable. Get a clue people!!

The Department of Education should be abolished. But the responsibility of States and our Government (since our money GOES to education) SHOULD be insuring (as this President is doing) to make sure that TEACHERS are qualified. That THEY can read. So yeah, get rid of the Dept. Of Education, and put the money back into the schools!! I want accountability, and teachers to be educated and responsible!!

"FEMA, EPA, the war on poverty, the war on drugs, to name but a few".

FEMA? I'd hate to see what would happen without it,..are YOU gonna go help your neighbor?? (yeah right!!) Is it perfect, no..but it DOES help people. EPA, it goes too far and some of its rules are totally counter-productive, at times even creating more polution problems than it helps prevent, but it still has merits. The war on poverty? That requires responsibility NOT HANDOUTS constantly. People DO run into bad times, and yeah, if we can help them get out of those times, as a society we end up better off.. less crime, and productive people. But I don't feel anything that is just GIVEN to people works. They have to pay it back somehow. The war on drugs? Again, responsibility. I dont' feel sorry for people who make the CHOICE to ruin their lives. I'd try to help them be rehabilitated, but again, they have to WANT it, and if we don't try for rehab, then again, we just have a bigger problem on our hands. I'd love to see us get more drug dealers off the streets, and for us to USE THE LAWS WE HAVE to put them behind bars. If a person keeps using.. jail time for them too. I'm sick of the attitude that people have a RIGHT TO DO DRUGS. That it only hurts THEM!! Bullcrap!! We all pay for it in a multitude of ways. In fact, I would wager a ton of people who are claiming the Government is too intrusive are probably worried our Goverment might find "their" drug stash.

Considering this I can't trust the government to restrain from turning a National Neighborhood Watch into a Spy on your Neighbor program that would make Stalin, and Hitler envious.

Get a clue. Do some reading and even watch some constructive TV. Its out there, if you want the "education". But you have to WANT to understand it and to take the TIME to research and UNDERSTAND it all. Get active in your own education.

I agree with the intellegentsia that say "EDUCATION IS THE KEY". It is!!

50 posted on 08/02/2002 10:49:09 PM PDT by Vets_Husband_and_Wife
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To: Vets_Husband_and_Wife
Don't call me a mindless robot when your willing to grab your oil can and fall in line with any government agenda subject to abuse that comes down the beltway.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/788116.asp#BODY

"Ashcroft later backpedaled from the notion that TIPS was intended to recruit precisely those service people who had access to your home, telling the Judiciary Committee at the 11th hour last week that volunteers would simply report on “anomalies, things that are different” and raise suspicions. He emphasized, too late, that TIPS was not “a program related to private places like homes.”

But clearly that was its original intent and that was why these particular workers were selected. By circumventing the warrant requirement and making the cable guy an agent of the state, Ashcroft infuriated people of every political stripe. A TIPS program deputizing American workers to report suspicious activity outside the home would have been closer to the abuse-reporting laws and might not have died in Congress."

51 posted on 08/02/2002 10:54:06 PM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: Vets_Husband_and_Wife
What is happening here is that the American people have made a choice to trade their liberty piecemeal for the security that they desire. Someday soon, they will have neither.

If this was a true *war* on *terrorism*, we would be dropping bombs on Mecca, we would have eliminated all foreign aid to Islamic states, we would have *fought it in a serious and reasoned manner.*

Instead, we have taken the low road of ignoring the perps being more and more intrusive in our policing of law abiding American citizens.
52 posted on 08/02/2002 10:55:56 PM PDT by applemac_g4
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To: Vets_Husband_and_Wife
If I see strange activity, you can bet your sweet (or sour) A** I'm gonna report it! I could care less about someones hurt wittle feelings!!

Pssst, I got a hot tip for you. If you want to see some strange activity, look south towards the border.....

53 posted on 08/02/2002 10:59:42 PM PDT by Joe Hadenuf
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To: MissAmericanPie; dcwusmc; c-b 1
Don't bother arguing with the "New Republican" quasi-pinko Vets_Spouse poster, I've run into this one before. It's posts start to resemble the Unibomber's manifesto if you argue with it long enough.
54 posted on 08/02/2002 11:10:02 PM PDT by AAABEST
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To: AAABEST
Don't bother arguing with the "New Republican" quasi-pinko Vets_Spouse poster, I've run into this one before. It's posts start to resemble the Unibomber's manifesto if you argue with it long enough."

Coming from YOU, I consider that the HIGHEST of compliments!! I see I've explained myself well. Whew.. I was hoping for some kind of validation!! Glad it was YOU who accomodated me!! I rest my case!

55 posted on 08/02/2002 11:15:05 PM PDT by Vets_Husband_and_Wife
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To: applemac_g4
Good grief.. they are crawling out of the proverbial paranoia woodwork tonight.

Get some sleep folks.. sleep deprevation causes psychosis.

As does that wacky tobaccy some of you are obviously smoking, that and other things that are illegal. I've even read where those things can "cause" paranoia. Which upon further reflection, could explain many peoples fear of their own Government!!
56 posted on 08/02/2002 11:19:43 PM PDT by Vets_Husband_and_Wife
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To: MissAmericanPie
Well, if MSNBC said it then..... :o)
57 posted on 08/02/2002 11:20:58 PM PDT by Vets_Husband_and_Wife
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Comment #58 Removed by Moderator

To: shigure
Lets see.. it is WHAT Time in Kentucky?? I'm in California. So I rest my case.

And btw.. I do come here frequently through out the day. Usually to read the latest news, as it saves me a ton of time searching all over the place. But lately I find myself "defending" our country.

Amazing!
59 posted on 08/02/2002 11:32:11 PM PDT by Vets_Husband_and_Wife
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To: SUSSA
You are mistaken. There are several proposals afoot to eliminate or reduce the restrictions of posse comitatus.

      Yes, there are.
      I have heard both TV "news people" and government officials speculating that posse comitatus restrictions should be changed. 
      I am reminded of a passage in Shorter Course in Civil Government, a text written in 1875 by Calvin Townsend.
      In referring to the second amendment, Townsend writes,

      "This paragraph of the Constitution refers to an organization of the militia of the states.  Fears have been expressed that the liberty of the people might be destroyed by the perverted power of a powerful standing army.  The militia, that might be called out at any time on a month's notice, would outnumber, twenty to one, any standing army in time of peace that will ever be tolerated in the United States."

      Townsend was wrong.  Today, we have a large peacetime military, and the state militias have been discarded.  (No, the National Guard is not the same as a state militia.  Neither are private rump "militias.")
60 posted on 08/02/2002 11:32:43 PM PDT by Celtman
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