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Man Tried for Friend's Drunkenness
Yahoo News ^ | 07/30/02 | JOHN CURRAN

Posted on 07/31/2002 5:47:13 PM PDT by Libloather

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To: Libloather
Article already posted here by Shermy http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/724898/posts
41 posted on 07/31/2002 9:36:10 PM PDT by Kaslin
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To: Jonathon Spectre
I, myself, am responsible for the Ted Bundy murders!

Haven't you heard? Pornography was responsible for Ted Bundy's murders. While not everyone who views pornography becomes a serial killer has yet to be explained.

42 posted on 07/31/2002 9:38:43 PM PDT by Drew68
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To: Drew68
In many cases being drunk adds to the offense, but you are right the drunk defense is used a lot. That doesn't make it right though. I would be willing to bet a lot of money that you can't find a paternity case where being drunk was a successful defense.


>> If it was then we would have innocent by reason of >> drunk. How insane would that be? :)

> Actually, being under the influence during the
> comission of a crime is often used as a mitigating
> circumstance in one's defense. It normally won't
> result in an acquittal but often the penalty is less than > if the crime was commited sober.

43 posted on 07/31/2002 9:43:45 PM PDT by LeGrande
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To: Kaslin; Wolfie
Article already posted here...

Yet another AM bump - eh?

44 posted on 07/31/2002 9:47:04 PM PDT by Libloather
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To: LeGrande
They are responsible for their actions until they die from alcohol poisoning.

Open your mind and consider this - if you intentionally set out to get someone drunk, see them sit behind the wheel of a car, give them the keys, watch them start the car and drive away while learning later that the driver killed someone else - are you not somewhat responsible for the death of the dead?

45 posted on 07/31/2002 9:50:49 PM PDT by Libloather
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To: fone
Thanks. :)

It's interesting to note that jurors are enlisted and paid by the government and the judges turn them into co-conspirators in violating the constitution. Albeit the jurors are unaware that they are being incorporated into the judges' crimes. I think the legal term is misprision felony.

Where has congress been on this issue? Not a word. For it is the laws and congress that  creates them that judges have been protecting.

Politicians and bureaucrats have a sop proclaim of compassion, saying: "I'm going to use the government to help the little guy." Most of the time they fabricate a boogieman and claim to protect the little guy from it.

That in a nutshell is what Praetorian-guard judges protect. Separation of powers has long since been an illusion. Hand in hand congress and the department of justice has lead to this...

Congress has created so many laws that virtually every person is assured of breaking more than just traffic laws. Surely with all this supposed lawlessness people and society should have long ago run head long into destruction. But it has not.

Instead, people and society have progressively prospered. Doing so despite politicians creating on average, 3,000 new laws each year which self-serving alphabet-agency bureaucrats implement/utilize to justify their usurped power and unearned paychecks. They both proclaim from on high -- with complicit endorsement from the media and academia -- that all those laws are "must-have" laws to thwart people and society from running headlong into self-destruction.

Again, despite not having this year's 3,000 must-have laws people and society increased prosperity for years and decades prior. How can it be that suddenly the people and the society they form has managed to be so prosperous for so long but suddenly they will run such great risk of destroying their self-created prosperity? Three hundred new laws each year is overkill, but 3,000 is, well, it's insane.

"Congress is rushing to pass a bill outlawing corporate fraud. If they really want to outlaw fraud, maybe they should just pass a bill outlawing Congress."

The government is the all time champion of cooking the books and it has the gall to point fingers at the whole business community because of a few bad apples. The entire business community and employees that support it should stand tall against a government feigning to protect the little guy from organizations that cook their books.

If there was ever a prime example of the fox guarding the hen house it is the government claiming to protect the little guy from organizations that cook their books.

By a 63 percent-33 percent margin, Americans say the president and Congress should focus on prosecuting corporate wrongdoers rather than passing new laws. Severe economic downturn could bring 1930s-style reform

People are becoming acutely aware that their tax dollars are being used to create more and more new laws instead of serving to protect individual rights.

As long as State and Federal governments continue to extort income-tax  from the productive working class and creative business community the parasitical-politicians and self-serving bureaucrats will never run out of ways to spend that money to the net harm of the working class, the business community and society in general. If it's not the Democrats it's the Republicans -- usually both.

President Bush can play the unbeatable five-ace hand of replacing the initiation-of-force IRS and graduated income tax with a consumption tax wherein if you don't want to pay the tax don't buy the item. Not only would that boom the economy while fighting off a looming economic double-dip inflation/recession headed for depression it would win President Bush a 2004 reelection.

What are the odds of that happening?

When I was a kid a friend's father, Mr. Brown used to jokingly say to us neighborhood kids, "Which do you want, a fat lip or a busted eyebrow?" That was not lost on me. From Democrats you get one, from Republicans you get the other. Voting for the lesser of evils still begets evil.

The genie is out of the bottle.

Where will it lead?

War of Two Worlds
Value Creators versus Value Destroyers

Politics is not the solution. It's the problem!

The first thing civilization must have is business/science. It's what the family needs so that its members can live creative, productive, happy lives. Business/science can survive, even thrive without government/bureaucracy.

Government/bureaucracy cannot survive without business/science. In general, business/science and family is the host and government/bureaucracy is a parasite.

Aside from that, keep valid government services that protect individual rights and property. Military defense, FBI, CIA, police and courts. With the rest of government striped away those few valid services would be several fold more efficient and effective than they are today. 

Underwriters Laboratory is a private sector business that has to compete in a capitalist market. Underwriters laboratory is a good example of success where government fails.

Any government agency that is a value to the people and society -- which there are but a few -- could better serve the people by being in the private sector where competition demands maximum performance.

Wake up! They are the parasites. We are the host. We don't need them. They need us.

46 posted on 07/31/2002 10:37:49 PM PDT by Zon
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To: Libloather
Less than an hour later, his SUV collided with another car, killing him and 22-year-old Navy Ensign John Elliott, who was headed to his mother's birthday party.

Tests revealed Pangle had a 0.26 blood-alcohol content when he died, more than twice the legal limit.

When I was drinking, I could get my BAC from .04 to .26 in about 15 minutes. How do we know Mr. Pangle's BAC didn't go from .08 to .26 from the time he was released until the time of the accident?

If Powell is convicted, his attorney should be disbarred.

47 posted on 07/31/2002 10:47:52 PM PDT by freebilly
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To: Libloather
yep
48 posted on 08/01/2002 4:27:30 AM PDT by Kaslin
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To: Libloather
What was his BAC when he got arrested (not when he died)? An average person loses about .03 of BAC every hour. Assuming it took 3-4 hours to process him, he could have gone from legally drunk to a perfectly legal BAC in that time.

Even if he was still over the limit when his buddy got him, his buddy was in no way equipped to determine his BAC. The police on the other hand are eminently qualified to determine it and his buddy would know that. The fact that they gave him his keys and told the buddy where his car was would cause this reasonable person to believe the cops thought he was 'okay now'.

What's going to lose this case for the prosecution is that it took him nearly an hour for the guy to kill himself. What did he do in the meantime? How many more drinks did he have? He could have been legal when his buddy got him and trashed half an hour later.

49 posted on 08/01/2002 4:37:15 AM PDT by BearCub
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To: Zon
Voting for the lesser of evils still begets evil.

Quite true...and often the fodder for arguements around here. "If you vote for Howard Phillips it's a vote for Gore..."

It would be refreshing to have a non-evil candidate to vote for now and again.

50 posted on 08/01/2002 5:07:50 AM PDT by fone
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To: gunshy
How is the cabbie supposed to know?

That's the point. Powell did know because he picked him up for a drunk driving charge.

51 posted on 08/01/2002 5:11:24 AM PDT by CharacterCounts
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To: CharacterCounts

CharacterCounts: The man is not being prosecuted because he failed to stop him from driving but because he assisted and aided in the drunk driving by taking the drunk back to his car.

ImphClinton: What kind of idiot takes a drunk to his car to drive home or anywhere else. This man deserves to go to prison.

Are citizens compelled by law to protect other citizens? Before you answer, read post #21

52 posted on 08/01/2002 5:40:13 AM PDT by Zon
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To: Libloather
> They are responsible for their actions until they die
> from alcohol poisoning.

> Open your mind and consider this - if you intentionally > set out to get someone drunk, see them sit behind
> the wheel of a car, give them the keys, watch them
> start the car and drive away while learning later that
> the driver killed someone else - are you not
> somewhat responsible for the death of the dead?

Being drunk does not in anyway relieve anyones responsibility for their actions.

Now if you forced the person to drink and forced them to drive then you would be more than partially responsible but short of using force you wouldn't.

How old are you?

Interesting how a libloather doesn't want to take responsibility for his actions. I thought that was the major definition of the libs they don't want to take responsibility for their actions. They had a bad childhood, they were molested, they were drunk, they were on drugs, they lived in a depressed area, their sexual desires controlled them, and on and on. If someone using free will does something they are responsible.
53 posted on 08/01/2002 6:06:31 AM PDT by LeGrande
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To: Libloather
Apparently not. A Liberteen pal of yours, AdamSelene235, said,"But as long as loons don't harm anyone or threaten anyone, I think they should be left alone."

Well, as you know, we've all taken an oath to agree with each other on every single detail of every conceivable issue.

Frankly, I think this guy should be prosecuted. He knowingly went out of his way to provide a drunk with a car.

These fine shades of grey are why we have a juries.

The original comment was regarding a veterans right to bear arms. I have no reason to believe the veteran in question is dangerous, just very outspoken.

54 posted on 08/01/2002 8:34:37 AM PDT by AdamSelene235
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To: Libloather
And isn't the one getting him or seeing him becoming drunk more responsible than the drunk driver?

No they are not.

Still I think this guy should be prosecuted for stupidity above and beyond the call of idiocy.

I think its called "reckless endangerment".

55 posted on 08/01/2002 8:36:50 AM PDT by AdamSelene235
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To: Great Dane
No one forced him to get drunk.

Absolutely.

That's why you should make decisions about things like driving before you get into that condition.

It seems to me that in this situation, the cops are more at fault than the friend. Unless perhaps they explicitly told him to take the drunk home rather than back to his car.

56 posted on 08/01/2002 8:59:24 AM PDT by Restorer
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To: All; newgeezer
"Am I my brothers keeper?".
57 posted on 08/01/2002 9:03:19 AM PDT by biblewonk
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To: All; newgeezer
Police: "Hello sir, can you come to the station and pick up mr .26 he is too drunk to drive"
Freeper: "Sure I'll be right there".
Police: "you realize that by picking him up you are responsible for all of his actions for the next 12 hours, maybe more?"
Freeper: "What!!!"
Police: "Yes, by picking him up you will be held accountable for everything he does until such time as his blood alcohol is low enough that a liberal jury would hold him accountable for his actions"
Freeper: "Yeah....Right.... Tell Otis he's on his own {click}"
58 posted on 08/01/2002 9:20:57 AM PDT by biblewonk
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To: biblewonk
"Am I my brothers keeper?".

Seeing as how that question was uttered by Cain, when "on trial" for murdering his brother Abel, I don't think the defendant in this case will want to use those exact words. ;-D

59 posted on 08/01/2002 9:25:48 AM PDT by newgeezer
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To: Restorer
Unless perhaps they explicitly told him to take the drunk home rather than back to his car.

You have a point there.

I remember a friend of ours getting too drunk to drive, we took his car keys....... the Ba..... had a spare set, sometimes there is nothing you can do against stupidity.

60 posted on 08/01/2002 12:31:43 PM PDT by Great Dane
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