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Smart Case, July 25, 2002
07/25/02
| Jolly Green
Posted on 07/24/2002 8:56:44 PM PDT by Jolly Green
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To: varina davis
Yes, it's possible. But my opinions and theories are no more "hip-shooting" than yours or others on this thread. Please, then tell us what the difference is between you putting the Smart's every word through the wringer and me putting your words through a similar wringer? Is it because their words are supposed to stand up to a meat grinder and yours are immune?
To: Jolly Green
I agree. Except that I think a conspiracy would have to involve several hundred people if you count everyone who would have to be involved, and their friends and family.
Not to mention that many of these people are from various agencies and departments, and would just love to come up with something that made them look good and the other department bad. That's just human nature.
(Unless the perp used The Secret Mormon Handshake on them... If that was the case, then of course everyone would salute and silently follow orders!)
To: All
To: MiloMarch
Can anyone name another kidnapping where the victim was found ALIVE after 51 days? Especially a high profile case like this one that received national attention. Patty Hearst.
To: MiloMarch
(Unless the perp used The Secret Mormon Handshake on them... If that was the case, then of course everyone would salute and silently follow orders!) What about the non-Mormons who aren't privy to the handshake? Why would they just go along?
To: varina davis
Actually, I think most of us escaped intact, though the druggie crowd wasted plenty of good years of their lives, and a few of them have no doubt sunk down several rungs on the socioeconomic ladder (not all though -- one girl who was kicked out for drug dealing after her sophomore year is now a successful professional and a very active fundraising volunteer for the school that kicked her out!). The bulk of the school was hard core academic types, plus a few like me who were intellectually inclined but didn't care much about schoolwork or grades. Overall, it was the sort of place where girls were much more apt to brag or cry about their SAT scores than about who did or didn't invite them to the prom (and then there was the girl who cried when her sister, a year behind her, got slightly higher SAT scores than her own had been).
To put this all in perspective for the case at hand, the age at which most girls get interested in boys is driven more by environment than by nature. In an overwhelmingly Mormon community, and as a member of a very active and prominent Mormon family, Elizabeth's peer group was not supposed to be interested in boys before the Church's minimum dating age of 16. Her Church-active friends wouldn't have been dating, and her church and school activities would have operated on the assumption that 14 year old girls do not or should not yet have a romantic interest in boys. Boys who would be "eligible" dating and marriage partners later, would likewise be subject to the not-before-16 rule, and thus not able to openly welcome romantic overtures from girls.
To: GovernmentShrinker
#179 You are right on target!
However, I intensely dislike the idea of a low-life taking the blame for "an owner or executive of a major business....having his reputation sullied." A pervert is a pervert!
187
posted on
07/25/2002 9:27:24 PM PDT
by
lakey
To: GovernmentShrinker
Her Church-active friends wouldn't have been dating, and her church and school activities would have operated on the assumption that 14 year old girls do not or should not yet have a romantic interest in boys.That's all well and good, but human nature being what it is...... After all, most religions advocate youthful celibacy, but anyone not living in a cave knows it happens anyway.
To: GovernmentShrinker
Much of what you said about the Mormon dating rules is symbolic of the overall culture in Utah. Mormons are feared by some and misunderstood by many more. They have a society that values the family like no other. A society that opened its arms to the entire world only months ago during the Olympics in the hopes of being better undestood. A society that has laid bare its polygamist past by having the most expansive genealogy program in the world, which is made available to members and non-members alike in family history centers worldwide and on the internet. A society that is trusting and open, yet criticized for being so trusting. A society that is more conservative than any other state in the union. Rather than being honored on FreeRepublic for their ultra conservative nature, they are lied about, ridiculed, made the brunt of sick jokes, and every word out of their mouths is analyzed and critiqued.
The following quote from a Deseret News article on June 18th entitled Case stirs emotions near, far offers some insight into the culture where the Smarts live:
Some shared concern about what they see as an abrupt shift in the safe perception of Salt Lake City and Utah.
"I think of Salt Lake City as the way America was in the 1950s. The family values, the friendliness, the trust surpasses every other city in the United States if not the world," wrote New Yorker Cutter Johnson. "It breaks my heart to think that this is changing. I have always taken comfort in the fact that your city was so warm and open."
"People who have not lived in Utah can not conceive of the holistic environment the Utah community engenders," writes Ken Marker, a former Utah resident. "I recall diverting Little Cottonwood Creek down the center of the street virtually overnight. In Park City we moved the contents of the town library to the new building hand to hand like a bucket brigade. No way either of these events could have happened in another state."
To: Jolly Green
"People who have not lived in Utah can not conceive of the holistic environment the Utah community engenders," writes Ken Marker, a former Utah resident. "I recall diverting Little Cottonwood Creek down the center of the street virtually overnight. In Park City we moved the contents of the town library to the new building hand to hand like a bucket brigade. No way either of these events could have happened in another state."Apparently Mr. Marker hasn't heard of the Amish and Mennonite communities, whose members raise a barn in one day for a needy family, who till their own fields and those of neighbors who are ill, who put aside their own work and travel across the nation to volunteer their labor to those who are victims of fire, flood and other disasters.
Yes, it "happens in other states" and the plain people make it happen in other states besides their own.
I'm sure Utah has some fine community bonding, but it's hardly unique.
To: Jolly Green
They have a society that values the family like no other. A society that opened its arms to the entire world only months ago during the Olympics in the hopes of being better undestoodnonsense....utter nonsense...
a society that wanted the big bucks from the Olympics...which is what any state would have done...please spare us how Utah "opened its arms"....Utah wanted the Olympics buck...that is that....
Maybe you think that society values its family like no other...but that is only your opinion...that is not a fact...
191
posted on
07/25/2002 9:57:47 PM PDT
by
cherry
To: cherry
Thanks for sharing.
To: cherry
Maybe you think that society values its family like no other...but that is only your opinion...that is not a fact...Correct, Cherry. The Mormon society would be hard pressed to value family more than the Amish and Mennonite communities, for example.
Also recall LDS Pres. Hinckley on Larry King just before the Olympics, and he wasn't exactly "opening his arms" to all the publicity and attention. A very literate and charismatic leader, BTW.
To: lakey
Like Jolly Green said earlier, because they don't have enough evidence to convict him and they don't want to be sued for bring charges they don't have the evidence for. I still would think they could search his home and car.
To: GovernmentShrinker
On the other hand, casting suspicion on someone who earns a living, and perhaps supports a family, as an owner or executive of a major business, or otherwise has a lot to lose by having his reputation sullied, needs to be done with a much higher level of evidence and certainty about guilt.
Good logic but I'm convinced the kidnapper is another dirtball like Ricci so I can't imagine why they haven't at least done a search of his car and abode and gotten his name in the news.
Comment #196 Removed by Moderator
To: lakey; dalebert
I don't watch Primetime Live at all, I don't think I've ever seen the show. However, if I would have known Angela Ricci was going to be on, I would have watched last night. Except last night, the power went off in Provo for about five hours. So no, I didn't see the show.
To: brigette
Amazing that you would mention the very two places I have been concentrating on for about a year. Thanks for the confirmation that I may be heading in the right direction.
To: Utah Girl
Does anyone know if photos released to the press early in Smart abduction case were of Elizabeth as she looks now or were they all of her as a younger girl? Also how many private airstrips in a 250 mile radius of Salt Lake?
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