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To: killjoy; archy
Your criticism makes sense, though I'm not particularly qualified to dispute it either. And the IDF doesn't exactly "prepare" the house the way we would (and they should) before clearing.

In the recesses of my mind (archy would know, thus the ping) I think I remember a bullpup version of the M14, developed very early on, perhaps in the transition from the Garand, rejected for similar reasons, the ejection was too close to the face.

53 posted on 07/24/2002 4:35:34 PM PDT by SJackson
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To: SJackson; killjoy
Consider the following *rathunt* in Chechnya, using full-length AKs by Russian AMAN troops. They do things a little differently than I've been taught, but it appears they'd be MUCH better off in their circumstances with a few bullpups.

Their underbarrel bloopers seem to work okay, though.

-archy-/-

54 posted on 07/24/2002 6:53:50 PM PDT by archy
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To: SJackson
Your criticism makes sense, though I'm not particularly qualified to dispute it either. And the IDF doesn't exactly "prepare" the house the way we would (and they should) before clearing.

In the recesses of my mind (archy would know, thus the ping) I think I remember a bullpup version of the M14, developed very early on, perhaps in the transition from the Garand, rejected for similar reasons, the ejection was too close to the face.

There was indeed a bullpup variant among the various developmental offerings created along the path of the search for a Garand replacement or improvement that included the eventually successful T44E4 pushed by Colonel Rene R. Studier, Earle Harvey's T25, and the FN offering of a U.S. version of their FAL, the T48, among others. [T20, T20E1, T20E2; T22, T22E1, T22E2; and T27). Then the rest of the T series (T28; T31; T33; T35; T36; T37; T25; T47; T44, T44E1 - T44E6]

T25

And too, at around the same time, former tank sergeant and small arms designer Loren Cook came up with a straight-line bullpup .45-caliber SMG as a possible replacement for the WWII-era M3 and M3A1 Greaseguns that soldiered on until the last decade of the XX century. He was not an officer, so his uinteresting design had little chancce of acceptance among the Ordnance Corps brass.

The real gem of that period was the British EM-2 in the *.270/30* chambering, actually a .276 caliber, 7mmx45mm caliber bullpup rifle. But it wasn't chambered for that NATO-sdesired US cartridge, so Great Britain's Tommies got a pommified FAL instead.

EM-2

64 posted on 07/25/2002 12:28:25 PM PDT by archy
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To: SJackson
Your criticism makes sense, though I'm not particularly qualified to dispute it either. And the IDF doesn't exactly "prepare" the house the way we would (and they should) before clearing.

I believe that the after-action reports of Patton's Third Army, probably the all-time champions of house-to-house rathunts and MOUT, eventually came to the the conclusive thought that the best way to do so was with direct fire from self-propelled 155mm artillery pieces, though many of the then-existing designs had trouble maneuvering in narro European city streets. But the basic concept certainly works for me.


66 posted on 07/25/2002 12:48:58 PM PDT by archy
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