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Witness Tampering Alleged in Flt. 587 Probe
NewsMax.com ^ | 7/16/02 | Carl Limbacher & Staff

Posted on 07/16/2002 2:35:52 PM PDT by goody2shooz

A group of eyewitnesses to the Nov. 12 crash of American Airlines Flight 587 are charging that the National Transportation Safety Board has engaged in deliberate cover-up; complaining that investigators have ignored their accounts of a fiery midair explosion and even tried to persuade some of them to change their story.

"The plane was definitely on fire. It was in the middle of the plane," said Maureen Hager, a flight attendant who watched Flt. 587 crash from her apartment window in Belle Harbor, New York.

She told the New York Daily News that crash investigators tried to get her to change her account. "They told me I didn't see it," she complained.

Hager was one of 25 who addressed a gathering of Flt. 587 witnesses at a Queens, New York restaurant located not far from the crash scene last week.

Others were equally adamant.

"I resent the fact that the NTSB and all these other people think we're making this stuff up," added Joann Catanese, a Rockaway Park resident who joined the group of 45 fellow Flt. 587 witnesses.

Still others said the NTSB simply refused to take witness statements from those whose accounts conflicted with official theories of how the crash happened.

Some who said they saw an explosion claimed the NTSB declined to conduct follow-up interviews.

Since the earliest hours after Flt. 587 crashed outside JFK International Airport, the NTSB has maintained there was no indication of an onboard fire or explosion, evidence that could show terrorists brought the plane down.

Yet most of the witnesses at the meeting said they heard an explosion, then saw the Airbus 300-600 engulfed in a fireball before it plummeted to the ground, killing all 260 aboard and five on the ground.

The crash took place on the Veteran's Day holiday, a day after the FBI had issued an air travel terrorist alert.

Five weeks later, al Qaeda terrorist Richard Reid was apprehended trying to detonate a bomb on board Miami-bound American Airlines Flight 63.

"I kind of think there's a cover-up," local diner owner Kenny Good told the Daily News.

Good, also a Flt. 587 witness, said he had to force investigators to recover jet debris he collected from the roof of his restaurant.

"I had parts [from the crash] for a full day and nobody picked them up and they could be covered with explosive residue," Good said.

The NTSB was invited to attend the Flt. 587 witness meeting but declined to send a representative.


TOPICS: Extended News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aaflight587; coverup; flt587; ntsb; security; terrorism
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To: SpottedBeaver
The wings fell off because it is a little known fact that JB-Weld is not permanent. It is good for only 8,000 "takeoff/landing" cycles, tops!
21 posted on 07/16/2002 3:22:01 PM PDT by RobRoy
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To: Sabertooth; Uncle Bill; Fred Mertz; honway
Will the FBI step in like they did in TWA 800 and the LAX terrorist shootings and say no terrorism was involved and say to F (orget) B ('out) I (t)

The FBI gets bigger budgets and more personnel and more power to investigate us, take away our privacy but give us no more protection and more lying about terror incidents instead.

Has the FBI have become the political police force to protect an executive branch from claims of political coverup and lying?

22 posted on 07/16/2002 3:24:09 PM PDT by OKCSubmariner
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To: Sundog
That's the odd thing about flight 93. It is a slam dunk that the plane did not come down in one piece. Incontrovertable evidence. Lots of reliable witnesses. Certain locations of additional debris. Too manyEither the hijackers blew it up, or it was shot down.

What does this prove? It proves we are being systematically lied to about the way we are handling (or failing to handle) Al Quaida threats to aviation.

Until some of this is cleared up, one can only conclude that aviation is still quite naked and exposed to these threats.

23 posted on 07/16/2002 3:24:37 PM PDT by eno_
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To: goody2shooz
"The plane was definitely on fire. It was in the middle of the plane,"

Kind of near where the engines were attached that just came off the airplane?

Tell me tin foilers, how'd a sabatour make both engines come off at the same time? And without shrapnel marks in the engine nacelles that were clearly inspected by lots of civilians at the crash sight before the feds locked the place down.

I'm still open to there being something wierd with Flt800, but this one is easy. Wake turbulence (not wind shear), then vertical departed (was previously damaged, like 3 others found since), plane yawed dramatically producing high G loads and twisting engines with gyroscopic forces, breaking them off. Airplane crash. End of story.

24 posted on 07/16/2002 3:24:47 PM PDT by narby
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To: Sundog
My flight 93 web site has disappeared, www.flight93crash.com. It had quite a bit of circumstantial evidence that Todd Beamer wasn't the only one bringing the flight down.

Forget to pay the ISP?

25 posted on 07/16/2002 3:25:19 PM PDT by Poohbah
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To: narby
Tell me tin foilers, how'd a sabatour make both engines come off at the same time? And without shrapnel marks in the engine nacelles that were clearly inspected by lots of civilians at the crash sight before the feds locked the place down.

The ee-vil goobermint edited all those pictures with Photoshop as they were posted on the web!

26 posted on 07/16/2002 3:26:30 PM PDT by Poohbah
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To: goody2shooz
No pun intended with your handle here...but it was a shoe bomber. That is my guess.
27 posted on 07/16/2002 3:26:37 PM PDT by My Favorite Headache
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To: goody2shooz
Time for John Stossel to take on this story. Anybody know how to email him?
28 posted on 07/16/2002 3:28:34 PM PDT by copycat
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To: eno_
That's the odd thing about flight 93. It is a slam dunk that the plane did not come down in one piece.

Oh. Really? I've kept my ear down pretty close to the ground on aviation things, and I had not heard of this. I seem to remember the pictures of that one smoking hole in the ground where the AC hit in a near vertical dive. That the airplane might spread a few parts for quite a distance wouldn't be surprising at all. And/or, AC comming apart at high speed (It's not designed for vertical dives from altitude you know) wouldn't surprise me either. Neither scenario depends on govt. lying.

But then, I haven't paid much attention to this one.

29 posted on 07/16/2002 3:29:02 PM PDT by narby
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To: goody2shooz
Government calculations: 2+2=5 for certain values of 2.
30 posted on 07/16/2002 3:29:33 PM PDT by Glenn
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To: Poohbah
sight = site
31 posted on 07/16/2002 3:29:53 PM PDT by narby
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To: Sundog
On Fox 5 NY a man named Kenneth Brown said this to Rosanna ? and John ?

John: Ken, you there?

Ken, yes yes I am.

John: Can you tell us what you saw Ken?

Ken: Alright, I was out on the boat about a hundred twentieth a hundred nineteenth st when un we stopped the boat cause we have an engine..yah know the engine was making weird sounds, so we stopped the boat and we were back by the engine and I heard a popping sound...not like a a a I cant even say it was an explosion, it was more like a pop and then like a whishing sound and then part of the wing came off.

John:Where was the plane at that moment?

Ken: Right over the bay. Right over the bay

John So is it almost right above you?

Ken: Yes, kinda to the north of us, cause we where more to the east channel drive at that time, on that side of Jamaica Bay and um the pieces that came off the wing...flew into the um tail and tore the tail off and as soon as that happened the plane went belly up towards us and towards the east and it just dove straight down, like the uhh the belly of the plane actually turned toward the south and it went straight down into the ground.

John: So you saw some big pieces of this plane come off...

Ken:We was the first ones on the scene and then the police boat came and we helped them pick up parts of the boat..uh..parts a the plane. We actually took up the blue A off of the tail we put that in the boat. Ummm the picture of the....another piece of the whole top of the tail with the flag on it was laying in shallow water. We took up allot of pieces of the boat...the plane we put it on the boat and took them in to the police boat an helped load em onto the police boat but a a the engine

Rosannabreaks in: Well it sounds like you have some crucial information Ken...

His voice rising Ken says: See the engine...everybody keeps saying the engine fell off...if it fell off it fell off on the way down....

John:U Huh

Ken: That plane as soon as its tail came off it just bellied up and went straight down, so yah know people saying yah know the engine came off, but that came off after the fact. Now as far as explosion, something was happening over the bay, something made the wing shatter and took of the tail. and uh the way I seen it , it still looked like it had its engines on as it was going down.

John: Have you spoken to anyone there uh Ken have you talked to any members of the..

Ken Yeh a yeh police I gave the police a guy in a police boat my name and all that and when I was helping em with ya know the parts of the plane

Woman Ken you sound very shacking up , I'm sure this has..

Ken: I'm still shacking, its a its just a terrible sight. Ya know its something ya see on a movie Ya know how the plane..ya just just knew it..that it wouldn't, as it was going down I was saying hit the ocean hit the ocean thinking ya know maybe it cleared, its only 4 blocks wide but the plane just turned over and came straight down. It was..its a sight to see..it was ya know stunned me

Woman Were you able to keep your composure and think clearly at that point?

Ken: Yes, actually actually the things was starting to fly down toward the boat so we backed up a little bit toward the the trestles the A train trestle and then we came back to see if they was any...ah cause at one time I thought I could see a seat but I wasn't even sure, Nothing heavy came down, everything floated down

Woman: Do you think you got everything that was in the water?

Ken Mostly everything that was floating yah. Cause a the police boat came like the within 5 minutes..3 minutes maybe but that plane was gone in 6 seconds, when I heard the popping sound and seen the flames seen the uh wing hit the back tail an that came off it couldn't a been more than 3 seconds for it was down

John: So your saying the wing came off and hit the tail?

Ken: Parts yes...the whole section of the tail was what we recovered. The A the little flag on the top of the tail section that whole section, like the 30 foot top of that was stuck in the sand...in the water about 5 feet of water but there was other pieces floating around..as a matter of fact I took the blue A and we pulled that part on the boat and brought it over to the police boat. They was asking for our help then allot of boats came by allot of police boats

John:Nick your sitting hearing what Ken is saying that if any any questions for him? Nick Well um it sounds like Ken is your describing is a again that something exploded uh to cause these pieces of the wing to come out. Is that what you sug..

Ken: Exactly something happened to that wing that sent pieces of it back to the tail.

John was it the left wing or the right wing Ken do ya know?

Ken ahh see now like my friend..well.. a it bellied up to me and a when it bellied up to the east it a looked like the right wing cause the left wing still looked intact to me. It looked like the right wing had come off..or part of it

John: well that would fit with what the

(over talk..engine..saying..?)Nick: Unnn but again Ken Kinda saying the engine fell off after the fact but still potentially the engine exploding could could cause pieces of the engine to fly I mean what may have happened was a a series of events where pieces if the engine actually flew back and struck the tail or even that pieces of the engine and the wing at the same time so a but a Kens observations of the tail is a very interesting clue

John Do you live around there Ken?

Ken Yes, I live in Hamilton beach right off Jamaica Bay and a thats the whole thing..That plane would have went over Rockaway cause it was still like level until the tail came off and then it just bellied up and spun around and came straight down uh otherwise it would..that tail..as soon as it shattered thats when the plane lost everything

Nick: Now Ken did you see actual flames coming out of an engine that was..?

Ken: There was flames on the belly of the plane..I don't know weather it was the engine or ya know, but the plane bellied up towards us as it was going down and flames in the a..in that vicinity of the engines or whatever like underneath the plane

Well Ken we a thank you for your time

Ken: No Problem

32 posted on 07/16/2002 3:31:36 PM PDT by copycat
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To: Poohbah
Actually a successful "shoe bomber" attack would look pretty much like 587: Plane loses control due to severed hydraulics, enters unusual attitude, and loses large surfaces due to air load. Loss of control leading to unusal attitude and midair breakup is a fairly common chain of events. No novel theories about bird strike, thrust reversers, or cheap French plastic tails required. Google up the keywords "unusual attitude" and see for yourself.
33 posted on 07/16/2002 3:32:30 PM PDT by eno_
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To: Sidebar Moderator; Admin Moderator
Thanks for placing this in Extended News.



34 posted on 07/16/2002 3:33:37 PM PDT by Sabertooth
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To: eno_
One more time for all the old times...

Jet "exploded into pieces"
Feds Downplay Flt. 587 Explosion Reports

Breakup of Airliner is captured on security film.
Flight 587 Video Shows "Puff of Smoke" in Sky
FBI Sitting on Flt. 587 Videotape

Accident Theories Falling Like Dominoes (a collection of trial balloons)
Air Turbulence May Be Factor in Jetline Crash, Officials Say
Sabotage Explains Fight 587 Crash, Expert Says

JetBlue Pilot Saw American Airlines Crash
Flt. 587 Eyewitnesses insist Expolsion Came Before Tail Broke Off

Flight 587 Witnesses Blast Feds
Flight 587:Video May Hold the Key

35 posted on 07/16/2002 3:34:33 PM PDT by copycat
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To: narby
Numerous press accounts of debris miles away from the crash. It didn't bounce that far.
36 posted on 07/16/2002 3:35:26 PM PDT by eno_
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To: eno_
Actually a successful "shoe bomber" attack would look pretty much like 587:

Actually. a successful "shoe bomber" attack would look NOTHING like 587.

How does it magically cut the hydraulics without rupturing the passenger cabin? So where are all the pieces of passenger seats, overhead bin luggage, etc. blown out the plane that would have been floating on Jamaica Bay? Have you seen those photos of the test of a C4 bomb in a Walkman in a 747 (on the ground?). Massive cloud of confetti blown out of the passenger cabin. Guess what....there wasn't any for 587.

37 posted on 07/16/2002 3:36:38 PM PDT by John H K
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To: eno_
Actually a successful "shoe bomber" attack would look pretty much like 587: Plane loses control due to severed hydraulics, enters unusual attitude, and loses large surfaces due to air load. Loss of control leading to unusal attitude and midair breakup is a fairly common chain of events. No novel theories about bird strike, thrust reversers, or cheap French plastic tails required. Google up the keywords "unusual attitude" and see for yourself.

In other words, you've just made the lack of evidence of a bomb into evidence of a bomb.

BTW, the shoe bomb wouldn't work--commercial aircraft are a wee bit more robust than Al-Qaeda thought.

38 posted on 07/16/2002 3:40:17 PM PDT by Poohbah
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To: RobRoy
The wings fell off because it is a little known fact that JB-Weld is not permanent. It is good for only 8,000 "takeoff/landing" cycles, tops!

Paul Harvey would be aghast to hear such a statement!

39 posted on 07/16/2002 3:40:41 PM PDT by Orangedog
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To: OKCSubmariner
Has the FBI have become the political police force to protect an executive branch from claims of political coverup and lying?

Well, it's become ONE of them.

40 posted on 07/16/2002 3:40:57 PM PDT by Hardy Harhar
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