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To: american colleen
"The first is a saying by Jesus of Nazareth which reflects rather remarkably the "pre-Vatican II" teaching that outside the Church there is no salvation."

When Jesus spoke these words the "Catholic" church did not exist. I'm a bit rusty with my exact Biblical quotes, but I believe Jesus said something to the effect that "wherever two are gathered in my name, I am there."

Now as I said, I'm a bit rusty, but I don't believe he said "wherever two Catholics are gathered in my name, I am there." And to tell you the truth, I feel closer to God when I am wandering around alone in the Cedar swamps up here where I live......

4 posted on 07/15/2002 8:12:32 PM PDT by yooper
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To: yooper
Which is what I think a lot of people feel when they are by themselves no matter where in the mountains, on the beaches, on the plains, wherever which just proves God is in our hearts wherever we are. One Nation Under God.
6 posted on 07/15/2002 8:51:28 PM PDT by cubreporter
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To: yooper
From Matthew, chapter 18, Jesus speaking to his apostles:

15"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. 18"I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. 19"Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 20For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."

Jesus is talking about the authority of the church in exactly the same passage.

You can trot out the same tired old arguments that the word "church" does not mean "Catholic church," but that's just what they are: tired, old arguments. He was certainly talking about some church.

42 posted on 07/16/2002 8:53:39 AM PDT by Campion
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