Replies

"Your quotes and research is interesting, but mostly irrelevant. The Pledge is not a test for an office or position of public trust, nor is anyone required to take it or say it."

Not irrelevant at all. The Founding Fathers wanted religon out of our government. Legislating "under god" into the oath puts religion into our government.

Whether anyone is required or not required to say the Pledge of Allegiance is irrelevant. Inclusion of the words "under god" is showing preference to monotheism. A no-no.

"As far as trying to determine what the Founding Fathers would have thought, I think you only have to read the Declaration of Independence, which clearly demonstrates that they believed that our rights come from the Creator, not government. The Pledge, in mentioning "under God" simply reflects this thought."

Not at all. The Declaration of Indpendence was not a document intended to institute a plan of governement.

"I think the Founding Fathers would have been appalled that this country has established Atheism as the state-sponsored religion."

Atheism has not been announced or even given preference as a "state-sponsored religion". Leaders may still use their religious beliefs as moral support or ask the country to use their religious beliefs by praying for support in times of need. There just may be no outspoken preference given to any theology and the Pledge of Allegience does give a preference.

Our Pledge of Allegience should be inclusive rather than exclusive. It is not as worded today. It is exclusive of Hindus, Buddhists, Wiccans, Pagans, agnostics, atheists and a host of other relgious beliefs practiced by the citizens of our nation.

It is past time to rid our nation of the theological preference in the Pledge of Allegience as well as other parts of our government. It is the constitutional, as well as the right, thing to do.

BTW, try and find the word "god" in the Declaration of Independence.

"Try to find the word God in our Constitution"

Does the phrase done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America apply? This is the last line of the Constitution.

The Founding Fathers wanted religon out of our government

No. They wanted government to avoid establishing a religion. They also wanted government to avoid restricting its free practice. These ideas have been voted on, approved of and placed in the Constitution. The "separation of church and state" is not in the Constitution. It is an opinion. It has never been voted on. It has never been approved of. It is, at best, a goal. For the most part, it is good practice.

In the case of the Pledge, there isn't any "church" to separate from the state. There is no establishment of a religion. I would argue that it doesn't even establish monotheism; it establishes that our rights come from a higher source than government and that the role of government is to make sure that those rights are not infringed upon. The only type of person who would find offense in "under God" is someone who has an agenda to make the word "God" illegal - a clear restriction of religious practice.

BTW, try and find the word "god" in the Declaration of Independence.

OK. Let's.

When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

Wow, I found it in the very first sentence! You don't read very well, apparently. And look at all these other references to God using other words:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

And then later

We, therefore, the representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress, assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions

and

And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.