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To: mommya
Thanks, I think. I am capable of "serious debate", however. I posted the following in another forum early in the trial, and it still applies, although the fiber evidence in the SUV, the orange fibers and the doggy DNA were not presented at the time I made the analysis. Those facts make the odds discussed below geometrically greater.

....this is not a Sir Arthur Conan Doyle mystery in which you, the viewing public, get to have an "aha!" moment. This is a case in which the suspect was identified easily enough, and the initial suspicions confirmed through solid investigation and a mountain of evidence that developed from that investigation.

Here's another way to look at it--

Westerfield's guilt can be mathematically established way beyond a reasonable doubt. It's easy, really. Here's how:

Assign a numerical value to the chance that Westerfield, the anal neatnik, left the motorhome outside unlocked, unattended, and with the security system off. To be nice, say it's 1 in 3, even though we all know it's the kind of thing he would do maybe once every 500 visits. Now, what are the odds that Danielle Van Dam escaped, ran across the street unnoticed, and snuck into the motorhome at just the precise moment that it was unlocked, and unsecure. If you're one of the true believers here, like Dood, it's 25 percent, or 1 in 4. I say it's more like 1 in 200, but either one works.

Now, assign a numerical value to the chance that while she was in there, she somehow cut herself and bled. What are the odds of that? Again, I say 1 in 200, but go with Santee Dad's estimate, and use odds that are 1 in 3. Maybe there were a lot of sharp edges in there.

We'll assume that the hair in the motorhome, the fibers and the fingerprint were left behind on this visit, and so it does not increase the chance of Westerdoodie's guilt. We'll further assume, just to be nice, that the jacket was in the motorhome, or got contaminated from the blood dropped in the motorhome on this auspicious occasion.

Just with those facts, and way too generous odds, we're up to a 1 in 36 that there's an innocent explanation, pretty damn likely, and good enough for a conviction in any state in the union, but certainly not enough to sentence a man to death.

But that's not all. Because we have Danielle's hair in Westerfield's dryer lint and on his bedding. Now, we know the little scamp was in the house, but what are the odds she spread her hairs all over, they got on and in several different articles of laundry? Including on the bedspread DW just happened to take to the cleaners? Well, hell, go with 1 in 2.

But the dog, well, I'm sorry, I'm going to have to raise the odds. The chance that the Van Dams tracked that many dog hairs from their cookie visit into the Westerfield house is pretty small, even in Ms. Samantha's Santa Monica/Tom Hayden world. Give it 1 in 8, even though in the real world it's 1 in thousands.

However, there's the problem that the dog hairs don't positively identify the dog. That's simple to resolve. All the defense has to do to get rid of that 1 in 8 is come up with a dog, any dog, whose hair characteristics come close to the Van Dam dog's, and who has been in the house within the past few years. Do that, and the 1 in 8 is gone. Don't do it, and there's only one conclusion to be drawn: There is no such dog, and the only non-innocent explanation is transference, which, as we have examined, is unlikely.

Then, there's the carpet fibers that those darn Van Dams tracked into DW's house when they tried to force him to buy those disgusting Girl Scout cookies. The fibers then got in the laundry. Oh, hell, I'll give you a pass on those. I'm sure the Van Dams tracked those in on their shoes.

We're now up to 1 in 576, or slightly less than a 2/10 of 1 percent chance of innocence under very generous conditions. That's enough for capital punishment under all the official standards, although no one ever assigns a number to it. And, we haven't even gotten into all the lies, the porn, the odd behavior, the disappearing clothing, the cleaning and all the other things that point to Westerfield.

Using real world calculations, I put it more like 1 in 5000, not 1 in 576. But I gave overly high probabilities to prove that even doing so, the odds of there being an innocent explanation for Danielle's blood, the hair, fibers, and other evidence are miniscule.

The case has long been over, and it's incredible that there are so many arguing about so little. In fact, I think there is a far greater chance that Westerfield was framed than that there is an innocent explanation for the blood getting there. And the odds of that are pretty tiny, too.

If the defense can explain away the blood, I'll be happy to consider it. Call me when it happens, and I'm not holding my breath.

68 posted on 07/15/2002 11:26:45 AM PDT by Defiant
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To: Defiant
You picked a perfect screen name to match your attitude.

sw

69 posted on 07/15/2002 11:41:12 AM PDT by spectre
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To: Defiant

FDA Attempt at Lymrick...after this, you will appreciate my song parodies, possibly!!  LOL...


The number's big, it may add up...

That Westie killed, that little pup..

But others see a pattern of abuse..

That means Damon, should get the noose..

His social life, is really strange..

Sleeps with skanky women, doesn't know their names...

His wife is big, and kind of a goof...

His other gal, is sort of aloof...

Thin, old and fat....

He does not care...

Must swing with gals..

Lest folks think him queer....

THE END!!

 


71 posted on 07/15/2002 11:47:34 AM PDT by FresnoDA
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To: Defiant
Wow, those are some pretty impressive numbers! Pull 'em out of a hat, did you?
74 posted on 07/15/2002 12:05:31 PM PDT by shezza
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To: Defiant
It's easy, really. Here's how:

Are you familiar with the phrase "lies, damned lies and statistics"? You can prove anything you want, especially if you set up a few "straw men" in the process. A few examples:

To be nice, say it's 1 in 3, even though we all know it's the kind of thing he would do maybe once every 500 visits.

So, even though people who know him and have travelled with him have testified that he would leave the doors of the motorhome unlocked (security system off, of course) while he had the motorhome near his place, in order to load it up, clean it, etc, you think (or rather, would like us to believe) that he would only do such a thing "maybe once every 500 visits".

By the way, I LOVE that phrase "we all know". It's just like Det. Parga saying (on the stand) "Well, everybody knows that you don't leave your hose out on the lawn!" But I digress.

The chance that the Van Dams tracked that many dog hairs from their cookie visit into the Westerfield house is pretty small

Really? Are you at all aware of how much short-haired dogs shed - especially dogs that are, in their owners' own words, "neglected"? So you've got 3 people from a dog-owning family, 2 of which are kids (who wrestle with dogs far more than an adult would) - and you still think there wouldn't be any transference into DW's house? That the probability "in the real world" would be "in the thousands"? In the "real world", people who own short-haired dogs/cats take their pets with them (unless they brush off their clothing) everywhere they go.

Just to make sure you understand this concept, think of it this way: People don't wear their shoes in their own homes (generally). If they have pets, hairs stick to their socks, a situation made worse by static electricity. If they enter another person's home, and politely remove their shoes, they're going to leave pet hair on the other person's carpet. Once it's in the house, that hair can blow wherever it wants, thanks to forced air heating. This works with fibres as well, except that, in this "real world" case, the fibres will stick to the homeowner's socks, and be transferred into his laundry.

And, we haven't even gotten into all the lies

I don't see how the Van Dam's testimony applies in this situation. Unless you'd like to inform us all about "all the lies" that DW told. I'll wait.

"...odd behavior..."

Subjective. Define "odd behavior". I consider the fact that a huge majority of people would rather let the media do their thinking for them to be "odd behavior".

"...disappearing clothing..."

Which disappearing clothing? Please, go to the trial transcripts and post for us which items of clothing are missing.

Now, here's a 10-point question for you: What is the probability of a drunk, sweaty man entering another person's house, being in the home for approximately one hour (open door discovered at 1:45 am, open door discovered at 3:00 am), and not leaving a trace of DNA, fibre or fingerprints?

Thanks for playing, Lestrade.
77 posted on 07/15/2002 12:20:52 PM PDT by NatureGirl
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To: Defiant
But the dog, well, I'm sorry, I'm going to have to raise the odds. The chance that the Van Dams tracked that many dog hairs from their cookie visit into the Westerfield house is pretty small, even in Ms. Samantha's Santa Monica/Tom Hayden world. Give it 1 in 8, even though in the real world it's 1 in thousands.

Are you saying that since the Van Dam dog's hairs were in his motorhome and house that David Westerfield kidnapped Layla, too? Obviously I'm a bit thick, 'cause I don't see where you lay out how you arrived at your "1 in 8, even though in the real world it's 1 in thousands."

83 posted on 07/15/2002 12:47:57 PM PDT by shezza
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To: Defiant
The dog hair in thr RV proves that Danielle played in the motorhome, 100%. Westerfield did not take the dog on 2/1.
87 posted on 07/15/2002 12:49:15 PM PDT by John Jamieson
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To: Defiant
I've read that kind of "statistical" analysis founded on much better data in the past. And debunked too. Why debunked, what debunks it? Do you want to know?
92 posted on 07/15/2002 1:04:00 PM PDT by bvw
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To: Defiant
I wonder how many others had a "Caine Mutiny" moment as they read your rant trying to prove that 'mathmatically' Westerfield was guilty.

Isn't it rather difficult to type while rolling steel balls in your hand? LOL
194 posted on 07/15/2002 4:54:16 PM PDT by Dave_in_Upland
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