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U.S. seeks democratic role model for Arab states
World Tribune ^ | 7/3/2002 | N/A

Posted on 07/08/2002 10:00:32 PM PDT by a_Turk

The Bush administration is searching for an Arab model for an Islamic democracy.

The debate concerns how to outline a roadmap for Arab democracy and who should be its models.

U.S. officials said the some senior members in the Bush administration have suggested to some Arab allies of Washington that they should emulate Indonesia, Middle East Newsline reported. But they said neither proposal was welcomed by the Arabs.

"The great majority of the world's Muslims would like to be part of successful, free, democratic, prosperous societies, those that embody what might be called Western values but that are, in fact, universal values," Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz said. "I think success in moderate countries like Turkey or Indonesia can contribute to a larger dynamic. But we need to work on the positive side of this as well as the more negative side of fighting terrorists."

The debate comes amid an attempt to translate President George Bush's call for Palestinian democracy into U.S. policy. Some officials are urging the White House to formulate a policy that links closer Arab economic and military ties into progress toward Arab democracy.

"I think what we can decide for ourselves is that those countries that choose to be on the path of democracy, that chose to be on the path of freedom, that choose to be on the path of economic growth fueled by private enterprise, those are countries that I think represent the future and a future we want to support," Wolfowitz said.

Wolfowitz's approach, outlined at a hearing by the Senate Foreign Relations Committee last week is said to be the view of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Vice President Richard Cheney. Officials said Secretary of State Colin Powell does not share that vision.

At the hearing, the link between Arab democracy and U.S. relations was greeted with skepticism. Sen. Chuck Hagel said Arab countries have rejected Turkey as a role model.

"I've heard from others, Arabs, Muslims from around the world, that Turkey isn't necessarily the secular country that many Muslims would emulate," Hagel said. "I happen to be a great supporter of Turkey."

Officials said the United States is not concerned that Arab countries have made Islam into their official religion. They said many European Union countries have adopted Christianity as their official state religion.

"I think the way I look at it, Senator, is there's nothing necessarily contradictory about Islam and democracy," Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage said.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News
KEYWORDS: arabs; democracy; indonesia; mideastreform; turkey; usa
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1 posted on 07/08/2002 10:00:32 PM PDT by a_Turk
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To: Shermy; Nogbad; Turk2; LJLucido; He Rides A White Horse; Fiddlstix; Torie; MHGinTN; hogwaller; ...
Tehheee!
2 posted on 07/08/2002 10:01:07 PM PDT by a_Turk
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To: a_Turk
They need a stable democratic role model. Well besides Israel or Turkey right?
3 posted on 07/08/2002 10:04:20 PM PDT by Bogey78O
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To: a_Turk
there's nothing necessarily contradictory about Islam and democracy

... must ... resist ... smart@ss ... response ...
4 posted on 07/08/2002 10:06:12 PM PDT by polemikos
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To: a_Turk
Islam and democracy are incompatible. The feeling of most Muslims is that the state is immoral if it is not religious.


5 posted on 07/08/2002 10:06:54 PM PDT by liberalism=failure
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To: a_Turk
Just read your profile when I scrolled down and sqaw your sig. I liked this line: "I'd make the guys who wrestled that airliner from the scumbag terrorists, knowing they would crash and burn, honorary Turks"
6 posted on 07/08/2002 10:06:54 PM PDT by Bogey78O
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To: Bogey78O
Or the evil Ziocrusader United States of America. For that matter the UK can't be that good of a model either. Maybe they should follow the French example. They have a choice of what, 6 different republics to choose from.
7 posted on 07/08/2002 10:07:00 PM PDT by ChicagoRepublican
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To: Bogey78O
Rejected by who though? The ruling elite? Did they poll the mollahs? I think so. Let's ask the Queen if the monarchy should be abolished. See what answer we get :^D

Err, Ayatullah, would you be in favor of a Turkish style constitution which charges the military with kicking your can all over the place? What you say no? Surprise!
8 posted on 07/08/2002 10:10:21 PM PDT by a_Turk
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To: liberalism=failure
Islam and democracy are incompatible. The feeling of most Muslims is that the state is immoral if it is not religious.
Ooohh, I know this is going to start another rantfest, but I can't resist!

There are some Christians who think exactly that! I don't see the substance in your post!
9 posted on 07/08/2002 10:13:46 PM PDT by a_Turk
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To: a_Turk
Let's not hold our collective breaths!
10 posted on 07/08/2002 10:14:47 PM PDT by sheik yerbouty
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To: Bogey78O
crash and burn
You wake up one morning only to finally realize that, after all, there really is no Superman.. Just you and a decision of killing a planeload of co-passengers, or letting them die in the flames of the white house.. What a dreadful choice. Those guys have my respect forever.
11 posted on 07/08/2002 10:16:59 PM PDT by a_Turk
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To: a_Turk
Oh man, I hate to say it but you may very well get your wish knowing the way things go down on here.
12 posted on 07/08/2002 10:17:48 PM PDT by Bogey78O
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To: a_Turk
Well, Turkey is a modern Muslim state that is prospering and enjoys liberties. Where else can other Muslim countries look for a role model?

Typical that that line about Rumsfield and Wolfowitz oppose Powell. I don't believe it. It's a continuing liberal attempt to divide Republicans. I don't mean to say I don't think there is ever disagreement on the team. Disagreement and arguing different points of view passionately are vital to the free democratic republic process.

13 posted on 07/08/2002 10:27:52 PM PDT by WaterDragon
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To: a_Turk
The lesson is, that to be free and prosper, a people must be determined, and they must be self-determined to sacrifice their lives to establish justice which adheres to the rule of law and to the peoples' soverign authority. Once established, or at least in formation, the benefits of capital investment will bear out through dedication.

What America has that is so fleeting to the rest of the world, is our living democratic-republic and rule of law; though what the world sees is wealth.

We have been giving away some of our wealth, when we should have been instructing, not about money markets, but about the business of such foreign peoples' helping each other to establish and enforce their own democratic-republics.

It's not as simple as achieving a popular vote; communist countries have a popular vote.

The success of a democratic-republic is more complex; and understanding the formula, and knowing how to teach it --- that is what we have to offer, and in my humble opinion we should.

14 posted on 07/08/2002 10:34:21 PM PDT by First_Salute
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To: a_Turk
"I've heard from others, Arabs, Muslims from around the world, that Turkey isn't necessarily the secular country that many Muslims would emulate," Hagel said. "I happen to be a great supporter of Turkey."

Then, why don't they emulate the US? Best constitution in the world.

15 posted on 07/08/2002 10:41:06 PM PDT by Post Toasties
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To: First_Salute
You're right. Closing down American Cultural Centers in countries far and wide in search of a peace dividend was not the way to accomplish that...
16 posted on 07/08/2002 10:41:14 PM PDT by a_Turk
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To: Post Toasties
First of all, I'm sure it was not the average Abdul who was polled, but the ones who depend on the old feudal ways for their control over the Abduls were.. And those in control wouldn't give up that control, since to them, their system is the best thing since before the invention of toast :)
17 posted on 07/08/2002 10:44:44 PM PDT by a_Turk
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To: a_Turk
There are some Christians who think exactly that! I don't see the substance in your post!

That's right there are. But not a whole lot. At least not compared to the majority of Muslims who want an establishment of religion.

But you don't have to take my word for it--just look at the empirical evidence--there are many majority christian countries, yet few if any christian states, while of course the correlation between majority Muslim countries and islamic government is almost universal.

18 posted on 07/08/2002 10:57:24 PM PDT by liberalism=failure
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To: liberalism=failure
correlation between majority Muslim countries and islamic government is almost universal
You're right.. It's all a matter of education.. And assuming an administration in favor of education makes it to power, then the billions upon billions of dollars which are needed to provide that education are missing. Look at the Afghani administration. They're so broke, they can't even pay attention...

Our religious sultanate collapsed, and in its place a secular system was erected. This only happened because the guy who led us to freedom against victorious ww1 allies in a post ww1 war of independence wished it so. He could have very well installed himself the new Sultan, and it would have bothered noone. That should give you some idea how difficult it will be for the Arabs to 1)produce a leader whom they'll follow by their own free will and accord, and 2)get to a level of education which permits a democratic society..

The religious far right in Turkey is about 10%. 100 years ago it was the same pathetic state of affairs as in the rest of the Muslim world.
19 posted on 07/08/2002 11:10:09 PM PDT by a_Turk
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To: a_Turk
I'm not so sure its education, at least not by itself. Many of the most anti-American stuff (antisecularism) comes from Islam's most educated (however this is probably because education, just as governance, is tightly linked to religion)

I think its going to take a change in cultural direction, but what might cause that beats the heck out of me.

20 posted on 07/08/2002 11:21:56 PM PDT by liberalism=failure
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