U.S. seeks democratic role model for Arab states

World Tribune ^ | 7/3/2002 | N/A

[a_Turk]

Tehheee!

[Bogey78O]

They need a stable democratic role model. Well besides Israel or Turkey right?

[polemikos]

there's nothing necessarily contradictory about Islam and democracy

... must ... resist ... smart@ss ... response ...

[liberalism=failure]

Islam and democracy are incompatible. The feeling of most Muslims is that the state is immoral if it is not religious.

[Bogey78O]

Just read your profile when I scrolled down and sqaw your sig. I liked this line: "I'd make the guys who wrestled that airliner from the scumbag terrorists, knowing they would crash and burn, honorary Turks"

[ChicagoRepublican]

Or the evil Ziocrusader United States of America. For that matter the UK can't be that good of a model either. Maybe they should follow the French example. They have a choice of what, 6 different republics to choose from.

[a_Turk]

Rejected by who though? The ruling elite? Did they poll the mollahs? I think so. Let's ask the Queen if the monarchy should be abolished. See what answer we get :^D

Err, Ayatullah, would you be in favor of a Turkish style constitution which charges the military with kicking your can all over the place? What you say no? Surprise!

[a_Turk]

Islam and democracy are incompatible. The feeling of most Muslims is that the state is immoral if it is not religious.

Ooohh, I know this is going to start another rantfest, but I can't resist!

There are some Christians who think exactly that! I don't see the substance in your post!

[sheik yerbouty]

Let's not hold our collective breaths!

[a_Turk]

crash and burn

You wake up one morning only to finally realize that, after all, there really is no Superman.. Just you and a decision of killing a planeload of co-passengers, or letting them die in the flames of the white house.. What a dreadful choice. Those guys have my respect forever.

[Bogey78O]

Oh man, I hate to say it but you may very well get your wish knowing the way things go down on here.

[WaterDragon]

Well, Turkey is a modern Muslim state that is prospering and enjoys liberties. Where else can other Muslim countries look for a role model?

Typical that that line about Rumsfield and Wolfowitz oppose Powell. I don't believe it. It's a continuing liberal attempt to divide Republicans. I don't mean to say I don't think there is ever disagreement on the team. Disagreement and arguing different points of view passionately are vital to the free democratic republic process.

[First_Salute]

The lesson is, that to be free and prosper, a people must be determined, and they must be self-determined to sacrifice their lives to establish justice which adheres to the rule of law and to the peoples' soverign authority. Once established, or at least in formation, the benefits of capital investment will bear out through dedication.

What America has that is so fleeting to the rest of the world, is our living democratic-republic and rule of law; though what the world sees is wealth.

We have been giving away some of our wealth, when we should have been instructing, not about money markets, but about the business of such foreign peoples' helping each other to establish and enforce their own democratic-republics.

It's not as simple as achieving a popular vote; communist countries have a popular vote.

The success of a democratic-republic is more complex; and understanding the formula, and knowing how to teach it --- that is what we have to offer, and in my humble opinion we should.

[Post Toasties]

"I've heard from others, Arabs, Muslims from around the world, that Turkey isn't necessarily the secular country that many Muslims would emulate," Hagel said. "I happen to be a great supporter of Turkey."

Then, why don't they emulate the US? Best constitution in the world.

[a_Turk]

You're right. Closing down American Cultural Centers in countries far and wide in search of a peace dividend was not the way to accomplish that...

[a_Turk]

First of all, I'm sure it was not the average Abdul who was polled, but the ones who depend on the old feudal ways for their control over the Abduls were.. And those in control wouldn't give up that control, since to them, their system is the best thing since before the invention of toast :)

[liberalism=failure]

There are some Christians who think exactly that! I don't see the substance in your post!

That's right there are. But not a whole lot. At least not compared to the majority of Muslims who want an establishment of religion.

But you don't have to take my word for it--just look at the empirical evidence--there are many majority christian countries, yet few if any christian states, while of course the correlation between majority Muslim countries and islamic government is almost universal.

[a_Turk]

correlation between majority Muslim countries and islamic government is almost universal

You're right.. It's all a matter of education.. And assuming an administration in favor of education makes it to power, then the billions upon billions of dollars which are needed to provide that education are missing. Look at the Afghani administration. They're so broke, they can't even pay attention...

Our religious sultanate collapsed, and in its place a secular system was erected. This only happened because the guy who led us to freedom against victorious ww1 allies in a post ww1 war of independence wished it so. He could have very well installed himself the new Sultan, and it would have bothered noone. That should give you some idea how difficult it will be for the Arabs to 1)produce a leader whom they'll follow by their own free will and accord, and 2)get to a level of education which permits a democratic society..

The religious far right in Turkey is about 10%. 100 years ago it was the same pathetic state of affairs as in the rest of the Muslim world.

[liberalism=failure]

I'm not so sure its education, at least not by itself. Many of the most anti-American stuff (antisecularism) comes from Islam's most educated (however this is probably because education, just as governance, is tightly linked to religion)

I think its going to take a change in cultural direction, but what might cause that beats the heck out of me.