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How Much Freedom Should We Trade for Our Security?
Self ^ | July 5, 2002 | Self

Posted on 07/05/2002 6:59:55 PM PDT by Forgiven_Sinner

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1 posted on 07/05/2002 6:59:55 PM PDT by Forgiven_Sinner
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To: Forgiven_Sinner
Oops. I fat fingered the url. Here is the correct one: Essay contest
2 posted on 07/05/2002 7:02:32 PM PDT by Forgiven_Sinner
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To: Forgiven_Sinner
none.
3 posted on 07/05/2002 7:04:06 PM PDT by Maelstrom
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: Forgiven_Sinner
Looks OK...after a second reading.
5 posted on 07/05/2002 7:19:30 PM PDT by Maelstrom
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To: Forgiven_Sinner
None.

What makes man secure is his freedom; they are directly related, not indirectly.

6 posted on 07/05/2002 7:20:15 PM PDT by First_Salute
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To: Forgiven_Sinner
I'm with you, i'm not willing to give up one bit of freedom or privacy for the sake of security.
7 posted on 07/05/2002 7:21:53 PM PDT by dalereed
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To: Forgiven_Sinner
By the way, the question is not really how much freedom to give up, but how much authority.

Americans have authority which they should not give up at all.

When government political momenti make the rounds seeking the answers to "how much freedom ... ?" they know well, but the public does not think hard enough sometimes to be aware of how said government artists actually seek our authority.

8 posted on 07/05/2002 7:24:42 PM PDT by First_Salute
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To: Forgiven_Sinner
those that have been conquered were due to failure of the military, not due to the personal freedoms.

And oddly enough defense is talked around and about in the WOT but nothing trully substancial is being done to increase our nations troop strenght {numbers}, aircraft, ships, or ground equipment. We get some pie in the sky talk about projects ten years down the road at best that for some reason need to be paid for at the expense of our current programs. The number one function of govermemt is national defense. It's not education, foreign aid, the arts, or other such programs.

How much freedom should be trade for our security? Outside of military and national sefense systems I say none.

But seeing avaition or rather commerical airliners are private property and venture the planes owners would be wise to secure their property with things like cameras and armed security. I can not believe in this day of our present technology there isn't a system in place to render an entire passenger cabin unconscious. What happened to the Sky Marshall program as well? It practically stopped the hi-jackings of the 1960's & 1970's and these were terrorist doing them as well.

Our rights and freedoms are indeed under attack an attack as bad or worse as the terrorist themselves. When our elected leaders have to even think twice or consider beyond 2 minutes the possibilities of our military, citizens, and even elected leaders being answerable to a world court someone in office slept through their grade school and high school history and goverment classes or is a closet socialist one of the two.

9 posted on 07/05/2002 7:28:13 PM PDT by cva66snipe
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To: Forgiven_Sinner
None is absolutely right.

We find the source of any malignancy regardless of origin, cut/burn it out, and watch continuously for any regrowth, to which the same will be applied without hesitation.

Until this terrorist idiot mentality and its activists are killed, not imprisoned in another part of the host, more people than just American citizens are going to pay with their lives and or body parts.

Any politically correct fool who thinks or acts otherwise is guaranteeing the deaths of innocent men, women and children for many more years than necessary.

The politically correct asses are not the ones willing to die for their easy assed lives here, they are the ones who hide in the forest, hide in the granite buildings of Wa-Wa-Washington, and continue to bitch and moan rather than join in earnestly to end this insanity ASAP.

As Clinton did about the gun issue, these Congressional liars are willing to see more deaths rather than pitch in and help smooth the process where we find these cancerous people and hiding places quickly and rid the planet of this infectation.
10 posted on 07/05/2002 7:29:05 PM PDT by Vidalia
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To: Forgiven_Sinner
"Given that a nation is able to increase its security by reducing personal freedoms of its citizens, should it do so?"

NO...and like the conclusion, no freedoms should be given away....
(no more freedoms given up, we have "given" too much).
.............................. .............................. .............................. ..............................
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it,........."

If a government of any kind gives it's citizens rights, they can be taken away...However, unalienable rights are what we are born with, endowed by a Creator----These rights should not be taken away no matter what, simple as that.

This gov't cannot even enforce all the laws in place NOW, how in the #$&% can it pass and guarantee any new laws for the sake of security?




11 posted on 07/05/2002 7:36:03 PM PDT by JustSayNoNWO
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To: Forgiven_Sinner
I do not recall the exact wording...

'Those who trade freedom for security deserve neither' -Ben Franklen

We can have added security without loosing our rights and our freedoms. It is very simple: deal with illeagals. Gut the agencys that have failed us and have the government do its primary job: protect the AMERICAN people and not the world. Proper border control should not be that difficult.

12 posted on 07/05/2002 9:34:14 PM PDT by Pertinaxmnw1
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To: Forgiven_Sinner
In the mid-1980's we still had this, and had no problems:

"Suppose all draconian restrictions were applied to all non-citizens: they all had to be tracked and registered upon entry to this country and every one had to notify the police or immigration bureau when they moved. Would this be sufficient security for the nation?"

In addition, legal residents were required to register every year.

Currently, we still don't track people leaving the country, so we cannot track any persons who come legally into this country and the stay, illegally. We should track everyone leaving to assure that they leave, when they agreed.

13 posted on 07/05/2002 9:42:26 PM PDT by XBob
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To: Forgiven_Sinner
Currently, we are at war with China, and we don't even know it. We are at war with Islam, and don't know that either.

These are the wars currently being lost, because we don't even know we are at war.

14 posted on 07/05/2002 9:44:31 PM PDT by XBob
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To: Forgiven_Sinner
We're not giving up our freedom to be more secure. We are giving up our freedom because the head in the box at 6PM said it's necessary to give up our freedoms to be more secure.

In case the government doesn't know, it's OK to watch foreigners, as a matter of fact, it's the LAW, and has been for decades. The government is supposed to know who they are and where they are and what they are doing.

Americans are going to die so that everyone can feel politically correct. Then on the nightly news, they will say really nice things about the people who died and everyone will fill really warm inside. They will also say that we need to give up some more freedoms.

15 posted on 07/05/2002 9:47:57 PM PDT by ibme
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To: Forgiven_Sinner
To hell with giving up any of my rights.

Solution - Eliminate the security risks. Deport every Muslim in this country. They preach hate and disdain for America. Deport every foreign student. Stop all immigration NOW for two years.

We are at war, lets act like it and eliminate any potential threat within our borders.

16 posted on 07/05/2002 10:33:12 PM PDT by ASTM366
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To: Forgiven_Sinner
Good essay.

By “security”, I mean protection or assurance of safety from acts of war and crime, including acts of terrorism. I include protection from nuclear attacks, cyber attacks, suicide bombing, kidnapping, mugging, rapes, and robbery. In short, security based in the broadest sense I can imagine.

Which of our individual rights is also a contribution to national security,if it were not infringed upon as it it today?

Giving Up Liberty for Safety

People who are prisoners of fear never feel safe.

17 posted on 07/05/2002 11:57:45 PM PDT by hammerdown
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To: Forgiven_Sinner
"How Much Freedom Should We Trade for Our Security?"

Easy answer. None. Ben Franklin had some interesting thoughts regarding this.

18 posted on 07/06/2002 12:03:05 AM PDT by blackbart.223
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To: Forgiven_Sinner
I see a glaring omission in your essay. The list of "freedoms" you have lost. You have taken a very abstract approach to the issue. In the abstract, anything can be asserted.

19 posted on 07/06/2002 12:03:53 AM PDT by Texasforever
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To: blackbart.223
Old Ben also said the following

There never was a good war or a bad peace
Benjamin Franklin 1706-1790

Be careful when using the most socialist of the founders as your source of record.

20 posted on 07/06/2002 12:08:26 AM PDT by Texasforever
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