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God and Evolution
Stands to Reason ^ | Gregory Koukl

Posted on 07/05/2002 12:26:31 PM PDT by Khepera

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To: general_re
If it will make you happy, I will nakedly starve to death ... as long as I get to wear my ...
hat.


341 posted on 07/07/2002 12:48:25 PM PDT by Gumlegs
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To: Gumlegs
Their agenda is really exposed in post 14, by the way.

That bull's got some extra parts...

342 posted on 07/07/2002 12:51:00 PM PDT by general_re
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To: general_re
... and appears to be missing others.
343 posted on 07/07/2002 1:00:23 PM PDT by Gumlegs
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To: BMCDA
But that's not all. The best thing is you can watch your other relatives who didn't make it to heaven roast in hell while sipping tea and nibbling on crumpets. Isn't this great?

You mean the biblical heaven and hell are just like that remorable episode of Twilight Zone?

344 posted on 07/07/2002 1:08:33 PM PDT by balrog666
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To: balrog666
"Heaven for climate -- Hell for society."

- Mark Twain

345 posted on 07/07/2002 1:16:59 PM PDT by Gumlegs
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To: PatrickHenry
Page numbers without book references refer to the book, FOSSILS AND STRATA, from which these facts are summarized. An asterisk ( * ) by a name indicates that person is not known to be a creationist. Of over 4,000 quotations in the set of books this Encyclopedia is based on (see Order Sheet), only 164 statements are by creationists.

19 BASIC PROBLEMS Here are the facts in the rocks which destroy evolutionary theory.

1 - Lowest levels are just as complex. It is an astounding fact that the lowest strata, the Cambrian, contains a variety of creatures from every phylum, and they have complicated internal structures.

The mathematics needed to work out the lens structure of trilobites was not invented until the 19th century.—p. 25.

2 - Sudden appearance of life. The lowest strata containing fossils is the Cambrian. (Below that is the Precambrian, with no fossils other than an occasional algae.) Called the "Cambrian explosion" by scientists, it is a sudden appearance of billions of fossils of over a thousand different life forms.

Yet they are all distinct species, with nothing leading up to them. Every major life group (phyla) has been found in the Cambrian strata.

This situation is contrary to evolutionary theory, but quite nicely agrees with what happened during the Genesis Flood. For example, plants would have been washed into higher levels, but their seeds could be found in the lower levels.—p. 27.

3 - No life below the Cambrian. Below the Cambrian, in the Precambrian, essentially nothing living is to be found.

But above it, in the Cambrian, are over 1,500 different species, including one which is two-feet long.—pp. 28, 30.

4 - No transitional species. This is one of the most significant findings of over a century of digs. Only distinct species have been found, no half species. This now amounts to over 100 million fossils in thousands of museums and collections.

In order for evolutionary theory to be correct, transitional species—partway between one true species and another which it is supposed to have evolved into—should have been found in massive numbers. But none have been found. Scientists are well-aware of this problem, and have a name for it. They call it "fossil gaps."

An example would be the squid and the octopus. They are the most complex of the invertebrates (animals without backbones). Yet they are found in most of the strata levels. Careful research has disclosed no transitional species leading to or from them. Regardless of the strata, the specimens are identical to those living today.

Another name for this problem is "missing links." The transitional species linking the species together are missing. —pp. 30-31.

5 - Abrupt appearance. Not only do the smaller, slower moving creatures, in the Cambrian, suddenly appear in the fossil record,—the larger creatures appear just as suddenly! And when they appear—they do so by the millions! Tigers, salmon, lions, pine trees, hawks, squirrels, horses, and on and on! And always with no transitional species leading to or away from them.—p. 33.

6 - Stasis. "Stasis" means to retain a certain form, to remain unchanged. Each creature first appears in the fossil record with a certain shape and structure; it then continues on "for millions of years" through several strata, and then either becomes extinct or continues on to the present. Sometimes evolutionists declare it to have "become extinct millions of years ago,"—but then it is found alive today! Whichever of the three occurs, the creature does not change in shape or structure.—pp. 33-34.

7 - Not enough species. According to evolutionary theory, there ought to have been a massive number of species changes in ancient times, yet we do not find any of them in the fossil record. We just do not find the intermediary species that link the species we have.—pp. 34-35.

8 - Larger anciently than today. This is an odd fact, and it also opposes evolutionary theory. Ancient plants and animals tended to be larger—often much larger—than they are now. Many examples of this could be cited. But extinction and reduction in size run counter to evolutionary theory.—pp. 35, 37.

9 - No family tree. We are often shown a sketch of the evolutionary family tree, yet no such tree exists. The tips of the branches represent the various species, but the branches and trunk are missing.—p. 37.

10 - No geologic column. The rock strata is supposed to represent evolved species, but it is not a column.

Strata are missing and fossils are mixed together through many strata, and this includes index fossils. It is all one big confusion.—pp. 37-38.

11 - Immense numbers of fossils. Why are there so many fossils? Immense numbers are to be found. Only an immense, worldwide catastrophe could have produced such a situation. All the evidence points to the fact that vast fossil beds of plants and animals were buried by the Flood.—pp. 40-41.

12 - Not made now. It is impossible to make a fossil now. Researchers have tried to do it on dry ground and in swamps. But the plants rot; they do not turn to fossils. Rapid burial and immense pressure is needed to make a fossil.—p. 41.

13 - Rapid burial. It is clear that the fossils were buried with extreme rapidity. There are many examples of one fish eating another—just as both were buried. Quick, high compression occurred. Sharks have been found flattened to ¼ inch in thickness, from one side to the other, but with their tail fully erect. They were not sick, but in the prime of health.—pp. 41-42.

14 - Fossil footprints. Many instances of fossil footprints have been found. This evidence points to a worldwide flood. Birds were buried on or about the same levels as their footprints. But non-dinosaur reptiles and dinosaurs left tracks well below the levels where the bulk of their bodies were found. They were walking around earlier in the Flood and then later buried by it.—p. 42.

15 - Plants and animals not together. Evolutionary theory teaches that plants and animals drop to the ground, die, and make fossils. Yet the evidence reveals that plants and animals are generally piled up separately. This would be the case if they were washed into place by a gigantic flood.—pp. 42-43.

16 - Living fossils. A number of the creatures found in the fossil record no longer exist. This is proclaimed as a proof of evolution, but it is only evidence of extinction. Extinction is not evolution.

Many of the extinct creatures are said to have died out millions of years ago, for their bones are not found in "younger" strata.

Yet some of them have been found to be alive today! They are called "living fossils." One was the coelacanth fish, which has been "extinct" since the Cretaceous period, supposedly 70 million years ago. It was classified as an "index fossil" until 1938, when it was known to be alive and well in deep water, off the coast of South Africa.

If long ages elapsed between each strata, it would be impossible for the coelacanth to disappear for all that time. (Each species must either remain alive or become extinct. If a species becomes extinct, it cannot come back to life.)

But if the strata was caused by the worldwide Flood, which only occurred a few thousand years ago, there would be no problem. The strata were all laid down over a fairly short period of time.—pp. 44-45.

17 - Extinct dinosaurs. Evolutionists point to the dinosaurs as outstanding evidence of evolution. Yet they only show that creatures died out in earlier times. Extinction is not evolution.

In order for the dinosaur to prove evolution, there would have to be transitional forms leading up to them. But, like everything else, the dinosaurs are distinct species.—pp. 45-46.

18 - None of the fossils or strata are ancient. Fossils from every level have been analyzed by carbon 14 dating. Scientists have been shocked to find traces of amino acids in all strata levels! This means that all the fossil-bearing strata were laid down fairly recently and at about the same time.

For example, seashells from the Jurassic strata ("135-180 million years ago"), have amino acids and protein residue still within them. So they cannot be more than a few thousand years old.—pp. 46-47.

19 - Human remains in ancient deposits. Modern men and women are only supposed to have existed on earth for the past 2 million years, and therefore should only be found in Quaternary strata.

Yet human fossils have been found in many different levels, and human footprints have been found in the Cambrian level. These facts totally violate evolutionary theory.—p. 47.

231 posted on 7/7/02 1:22 PM Pacific by razorbak

346 posted on 07/07/2002 1:39:55 PM PDT by f.Christian
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To: PatrickHenry
Page numbers without book references refer to the book, FOSSILS AND STRATA, from which these facts are summarized. An asterisk ( * ) by a name indicates that person is not known to be a creationist. Of over 4,000 quotations in the set of books this Encyclopedia is based on (see Order Sheet), only 164 statements are by creationists.

19 BASIC PROBLEMS Here are the facts in the rocks which destroy evolutionary theory.

1 - Lowest levels are just as complex. It is an astounding fact that the lowest strata, the Cambrian, contains a variety of creatures from every phylum, and they have complicated internal structures.

The mathematics needed to work out the lens structure of trilobites was not invented until the 19th century.—p. 25.

2 - Sudden appearance of life. The lowest strata containing fossils is the Cambrian. (Below that is the Precambrian, with no fossils other than an occasional algae.) Called the "Cambrian explosion" by scientists, it is a sudden appearance of billions of fossils of over a thousand different life forms.

Yet they are all distinct species, with nothing leading up to them. Every major life group (phyla) has been found in the Cambrian strata.

This situation is contrary to evolutionary theory, but quite nicely agrees with what happened during the Genesis Flood. For example, plants would have been washed into higher levels, but their seeds could be found in the lower levels.—p. 27.

3 - No life below the Cambrian. Below the Cambrian, in the Precambrian, essentially nothing living is to be found.

But above it, in the Cambrian, are over 1,500 different species, including one which is two-feet long.—pp. 28, 30.

4 - No transitional species. This is one of the most significant findings of over a century of digs. Only distinct species have been found, no half species. This now amounts to over 100 million fossils in thousands of museums and collections.

In order for evolutionary theory to be correct, transitional species—partway between one true species and another which it is supposed to have evolved into—should have been found in massive numbers. But none have been found. Scientists are well-aware of this problem, and have a name for it. They call it "fossil gaps."

An example would be the squid and the octopus. They are the most complex of the invertebrates (animals without backbones). Yet they are found in most of the strata levels. Careful research has disclosed no transitional species leading to or from them. Regardless of the strata, the specimens are identical to those living today.

Another name for this problem is "missing links." The transitional species linking the species together are missing. —pp. 30-31.

5 - Abrupt appearance. Not only do the smaller, slower moving creatures, in the Cambrian, suddenly appear in the fossil record,—the larger creatures appear just as suddenly! And when they appear—they do so by the millions! Tigers, salmon, lions, pine trees, hawks, squirrels, horses, and on and on! And always with no transitional species leading to or away from them.—p. 33.

6 - Stasis. "Stasis" means to retain a certain form, to remain unchanged. Each creature first appears in the fossil record with a certain shape and structure; it then continues on "for millions of years" through several strata, and then either becomes extinct or continues on to the present. Sometimes evolutionists declare it to have "become extinct millions of years ago,"—but then it is found alive today! Whichever of the three occurs, the creature does not change in shape or structure.—pp. 33-34.

7 - Not enough species. According to evolutionary theory, there ought to have been a massive number of species changes in ancient times, yet we do not find any of them in the fossil record. We just do not find the intermediary species that link the species we have.—pp. 34-35.

8 - Larger anciently than today. This is an odd fact, and it also opposes evolutionary theory. Ancient plants and animals tended to be larger—often much larger—than they are now. Many examples of this could be cited. But extinction and reduction in size run counter to evolutionary theory.—pp. 35, 37.

9 - No family tree. We are often shown a sketch of the evolutionary family tree, yet no such tree exists. The tips of the branches represent the various species, but the branches and trunk are missing.—p. 37.

10 - No geologic column. The rock strata is supposed to represent evolved species, but it is not a column.

Strata are missing and fossils are mixed together through many strata, and this includes index fossils. It is all one big confusion.—pp. 37-38.

11 - Immense numbers of fossils. Why are there so many fossils? Immense numbers are to be found. Only an immense, worldwide catastrophe could have produced such a situation. All the evidence points to the fact that vast fossil beds of plants and animals were buried by the Flood.—pp. 40-41.

12 - Not made now. It is impossible to make a fossil now. Researchers have tried to do it on dry ground and in swamps. But the plants rot; they do not turn to fossils. Rapid burial and immense pressure is needed to make a fossil.—p. 41.

13 - Rapid burial. It is clear that the fossils were buried with extreme rapidity. There are many examples of one fish eating another—just as both were buried. Quick, high compression occurred. Sharks have been found flattened to ¼ inch in thickness, from one side to the other, but with their tail fully erect. They were not sick, but in the prime of health.—pp. 41-42.

14 - Fossil footprints. Many instances of fossil footprints have been found. This evidence points to a worldwide flood. Birds were buried on or about the same levels as their footprints. But non-dinosaur reptiles and dinosaurs left tracks well below the levels where the bulk of their bodies were found. They were walking around earlier in the Flood and then later buried by it.—p. 42.

15 - Plants and animals not together. Evolutionary theory teaches that plants and animals drop to the ground, die, and make fossils. Yet the evidence reveals that plants and animals are generally piled up separately. This would be the case if they were washed into place by a gigantic flood.—pp. 42-43.

16 - Living fossils. A number of the creatures found in the fossil record no longer exist. This is proclaimed as a proof of evolution, but it is only evidence of extinction. Extinction is not evolution.

Many of the extinct creatures are said to have died out millions of years ago, for their bones are not found in "younger" strata.

Yet some of them have been found to be alive today! They are called "living fossils." One was the coelacanth fish, which has been "extinct" since the Cretaceous period, supposedly 70 million years ago. It was classified as an "index fossil" until 1938, when it was known to be alive and well in deep water, off the coast of South Africa.

If long ages elapsed between each strata, it would be impossible for the coelacanth to disappear for all that time. (Each species must either remain alive or become extinct. If a species becomes extinct, it cannot come back to life.)

But if the strata was caused by the worldwide Flood, which only occurred a few thousand years ago, there would be no problem. The strata were all laid down over a fairly short period of time.—pp. 44-45.

17 - Extinct dinosaurs. Evolutionists point to the dinosaurs as outstanding evidence of evolution. Yet they only show that creatures died out in earlier times. Extinction is not evolution.

In order for the dinosaur to prove evolution, there would have to be transitional forms leading up to them. But, like everything else, the dinosaurs are distinct species.—pp. 45-46.

18 - None of the fossils or strata are ancient. Fossils from every level have been analyzed by carbon 14 dating. Scientists have been shocked to find traces of amino acids in all strata levels! This means that all the fossil-bearing strata were laid down fairly recently and at about the same time.

For example, seashells from the Jurassic strata ("135-180 million years ago"), have amino acids and protein residue still within them. So they cannot be more than a few thousand years old.—pp. 46-47.

19 - Human remains in ancient deposits. Modern men and women are only supposed to have existed on earth for the past 2 million years, and therefore should only be found in Quaternary strata.

Yet human fossils have been found in many different levels, and human footprints have been found in the Cambrian level. These facts totally violate evolutionary theory.—p. 47.

231 posted on 7/7/02 1:22 PM Pacific by razorbak

347 posted on 07/07/2002 1:40:21 PM PDT by f.Christian
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To: All
I'm developing a standard response to kook postings:

Why I No Longer Debate Idiots.
THE CRACKPOT INDEX . A simple method for rating potentially revolutionary contributions to physics.
Characterization of quack theories .
Evangelicals and Crackpot Science . Excellent essay and references.
Are You a Quack?.

348 posted on 07/07/2002 1:46:35 PM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: f.Christian
Extinction is not evolution.

An asteroid hitting the earth or a massive epidemic are not proof of creation either.

349 posted on 07/07/2002 1:50:57 PM PDT by dheretic
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To: f.Christian
I see you have been having fun all weekend. Maybe we should have an evolution vs creation rally. We could have a slug fest and see who wins.
350 posted on 07/07/2002 1:53:29 PM PDT by Khepera
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To: f.Christian
An answer to your 346. Still working on an answer to your 347. ;)
351 posted on 07/07/2002 1:57:09 PM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: Restorer
Nothing (except the Bible, by some interpretations) says that God couldn't use evolution as his method of creation.

GOOD POINT. However you will make the non-thinkers go crazy with this observation.
352 posted on 07/07/2002 2:03:50 PM PDT by Vinomori
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To: VadeRetro
I dobn't link evo porn---post it!
353 posted on 07/07/2002 2:05:03 PM PDT by f.Christian
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To: PatrickHenry
There's definetly a problem with that canyon on mars...no 'fossil' fuels---age of the moon---dust!
354 posted on 07/07/2002 2:16:52 PM PDT by f.Christian
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To: f.Christian
you will make the non-thinkers go crazy with this observation

Already did. This is just a theory, not something I necessarily believe happened. I believe God is responsible for everything we see around us. I think it would be a little presumptuous for me to decide I knew exactly how he went about it.

355 posted on 07/07/2002 2:41:23 PM PDT by Restorer
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To: Restorer
Evolution is cold fusion with a lump of coal under it...

an intellectual forgery promotion ring/scam---very lame.

God is the 'big cheese'---no holes...

the Bible says..."no shadow-spin"...

SATAN--evolution is the holes--gaps--cheese GAS!.

There is a tradeoff between objectivity(Truth)---subjectivity(ego)!

To gain one...you have to lose the other!

356 posted on 07/07/2002 2:52:41 PM PDT by f.Christian
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To: f.Christian
I'm happy you have the TRUTH.
357 posted on 07/07/2002 3:08:30 PM PDT by Restorer
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To: WriteOn
'Einstein: "God doesn't play dice."' -- WriteOn

Einstein was wrong and widely acknowledged by his peers as having missed this crucial boat. Try Heisenberg for the contrary statement accepted as conclusively proven by all competent physicists.

358 posted on 07/07/2002 3:33:13 PM PDT by Vercingetorix
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To: concerned about politics
Prove to me your God of nature and his false doctrine is real

What God of nature are you talking about? This is a pathetic strawman, I do not worship ANY gods!.
359 posted on 07/07/2002 3:38:16 PM PDT by Dimensio
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To: Gumlegs
Hey! Prove that Hitler breathed air! :)
360 posted on 07/07/2002 3:39:24 PM PDT by Dimensio
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