RAZORMOUTH: Under God, Under Man -- What's so great about the Pledge of Allegiance anyway?

RAZORMOUTH.com ^ | June 29, 2002 | Jim Babka

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Jim Babka is president of American Liberty Foundation and RealCampaignReform.org both in Alexandria, Va. He’s a past Libertarian Party of Ohio state chair and was the press secretary for Harry Browne’s 2000 campaign for president.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

RazorMouth....

[nunya bidness]

That was fast.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

we aim to please....

[OldFriend]

Contrarians are soo cute.....NOT!

[A.J.Armitage]

Separation of school and state bump.

(Diotima, is there a way to ping the Ed Watch chapter?)

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Contrarians are soo cute.....NOT! 5 posted on 7/3/02 7:51 PM Pacific by OldFriend

Christianity is fundamentally Contrarian.

[A.J.Armitage]

Do you have a point?

[A.J.Armitage]

I wish I'd said that...

[Goetz_von_Berlichingen]

I will take a turn being contrarian. The Pledge of Allegiance IS unconstitutional in the pre-1865 sense, not because of the "under God" clause but because of that "one nation, INDIVISIBLE" wording.

. . . at least as far as neo-Confederates and palaeo-conservatives are concerned.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

I will take a turn being contrarian. The Pledge of Allegiance IS unconstitutional in the pre-1865 sense, not because of the "under God" clause but because of that "one nation, INDIVISIBLE" wording....at least as far as neo-Confederates and palaeo-conservatives are concerned.

I think that you are just suffering from a misunderstanding of regional American-English pronunciation.

South of the Mason-Dixon line, the wording of the Pledge is pronounced, "One Nation, Under God, 'n Divisible, with Liberty..."

A very forgivable misunderstanding on your part. ;-)

[nunya bidness]

Shameless self-promotion: Lies, Inc.: The Pledge Exposes The Failure of Government Schools

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

ping...

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

“If responsible Christian and Jewish parents did this [took their children out of government schools] all over America tomorrow, it would set off a revolution in this country. Gone would be the multi-billion-dollar Department of Education boondoggle. Gone would be the condom education. Gone would be the sexual propaganda and the moral relativism. No way tens of millions of parents are going to continue to be soaked in taxes for schools they don't use. Not only will your children be liberated, the whole country would be...

It will be like the collapse of the Soviet Union — hundreds of millions of people freed overnight.”

[truth_session]

If America is so Christian, than it's the "will of the people" to have Christianity taught in the public schools. So why fight the will of the people?

And how can a pledge be unconstitutional, it's a form of speech?

[truth_session]

By a raise of hands, how many in here think these judges ruled against the pledge because they thought it was socialist?

[truth_session]

"If “under God” is retained in the Pledge, will that really be much of a victory? If it makes 400 congressmen and the media happy, it’s probably not such a great thing. The need to separate school and state, the history and purpose of the pledge, and the lameness of the constitutional argument, lead me to believe that retaining those words is not only not worth a fight, but it’s also, ultimately, a loss."

A marvellous victory brought on by the grace of God. And the point is not to make senators or the media happy, ding-dong author. It's to make God and Christians happy or should I say "pleased." We all know that the liberal press is godless with or without the approval of the ruling. And we all know that the press as well as the politicians involved are never happy about anything, but are in fact doing what they do best, political pandering.

The need to separate school and state is ever so prevelant, if we are just speaking of opinions here and not of the Constitution. For the state or now the federal government, who is overstepping the states, has been for many years taking away our freedoms of expression, religion, and expression of religion. I think the federal government is establishing their religion, liberalism.

We do have the right under the Constitution to pray and speak of God in the public schools and will until the 2nd Amendment is ripped from the Bill of Rights.

Of course, above all else, we can have godless socialism in America, but put God into it, and socialism is all of a sudden evil.

[gg188]

Republican Party: A car in every garage.

Democrat Party: A chicken in every pot.

Libertarian Party: POT. Period.

[admiralsn]

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

If America is so Christian, than it's the "will of the people" to have Christianity taught in the public schools. So why fight the will of the people? And how can a pledge be unconstitutional, it's a form of speech?

If 99 Christians vote to steal money from 1 atheist to form a "Christian School", it's still THEFT. And Theft is an Anti-Christian violation of the Eighth Commandment.

I'm in favor of my kids (when God sees fit to so bless me) affirming that this Nation... and every Atom in the Universe... is "under God". In fact, I want my kids to affirm that the Universe ain't under some un-named, deistic "God", I want them to affirm that the Universe is under the control of Jesus Christ in particular. "He holds in His nail-scarred hands the destiny of all things".

And I don't want to steal anyone else's money to say so.