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Report blames U.S. pilots

Posted on 06/28/2002 2:28:28 PM PDT by kever

Report blames U.S. pilots

By JOHN WARD-- Canadian Press

OTTAWA (CP) -- Two American fighter pilots were "the direct cause" of a bombing tragedy that killed four Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan in April, say Canadian and U.S. reports released Friday.

"Canadian troops conducting the live-fire exercise followed all appropriate procedures and regulations," Defence Minister John McCallum told a news conference.

Investigators also determined that "the two American pilots contravened established procedures and were the direct cause of the incident."

Two U.S. fighter planes were returning to base after what was described as a long patrol in the wee hours of April 18 when they saw what looked like fireworks on the ground and believed it to be ground-to-air fire, said the report.

They asked for and were denied permission to attack, yet proceeded to drop a 250-kilogram laser-guided bomb on Canadian troops participating in a live-fire night exercise.

Maurice Baril, the retired general who led the Canadian inquiry, said the Canadians did everything in accordance with the rules, including notifying American military officials of their whereabouts and activities.

The actions of the pilots, said Baril, "represented a failure of airmanship and technique for the wingman and a failure of leadership for the flight leader."

The U.S. inquiry cited the two F-16 pilots for "inappropriate use of force."

The American inquiry also noted failures by the pilots' "immediate command structures" were contributing factors, but the Canadian report refused to touch this issue.

U.S. Marine Corps Lt. Gen. Michael DeLong, deputy commander of U.S. Central Command, told a news conference in Tampa, Fla., that the cause of the deadly accident was "the failure of the two pilots to exercise appropriate flight discipline."

DeLong said the investigators determined that the lead pilot reported seeing what looked like "fireworks" on the ground and believed it was hostile fire. The pilot requested and received permission to determine the precise co-ordinates of the fire.

The second F-16 pilot then requested permission to fire his 20 mm cannon at the target, but an AWACS airborne control plane in the vicinity instructed him to "hold fire." That pilot then declared that he was "rolling-in in self-defence" and released the bomb.

One of the F-16 pilots has been identified as Maj. Harry Schmidt of the Illinois Air National Guard's 170th Fighter Squadron. The other pilot's identity has not been revealed.

Schmidt's lawyer, U.S. air force Capt. James Keys said Friday he would not comment until he reviews the reports.

"In the interim, my client and I respectfully decline all offers for interviews," he said.

Keys had released a statement shortly after the incident saying the pilot didn't know the ground troops were part of the U.S.-led coalition.

"The pilot believes that he properly followed procedures based on the information he had at the time," he said.

DeLong wouldn't say what kind of disciplinary action was recommended by the investigation board.

Though he declined to say whether the F-16 pilots had been told in advance that the Canadian troops were conducting live-fire training in the area, DeLong did say: "All pilots are briefed prior to every mission."

The four soldiers killed in the accident were members of the 3rd Battalion of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, based near Edmonton. Eight Canadian soldiers were also wounded in the incident.

The deaths were the Canadian military's first in a combat zone since the Korean War, when 516 soldiers were killed, though 78 Canadians serving with the U.S. military died during the Vietnam War. The United Nations says 106 Canadian troops have died during U.N. peacekeeping missions since 1948.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: bombing; canada; pilots
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PILOTS
1 posted on 06/28/2002 2:28:28 PM PDT by kever
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To: kever
Good thing we haven't signed on to the ICC.
2 posted on 06/28/2002 2:35:56 PM PDT by TADSLOS
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To: kever
America is always the first to blame. The pilots did their job....Canada should inform us that they intend to practice in a combat zone, while everyone else is fighting.
3 posted on 06/28/2002 2:38:19 PM PDT by RasterMaster
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To: RasterMaster
The pilots did their job

No they didn't. They were derelict in duty. They contravened a direct order, by AWACS command, to NOT fire upon their target. He didn't just fire, he dropped the big boy on them. He killed our Canadian allies through subordination. The Canadians did everything as required to identify their movements. The pilot saw "firecrackers" on the surface, yet he had time to contact Air Control for authorization? Which was denied. Whereupon he rolled back and threw the kitchen sink at the "threat" anyway. Why didn't he hit the afterburner and hightail it out of there? The Taliban, Al-Qaida and Pushtan warlords don't have SAMs at hand. If he just screamed from the scene, no stinger could touch him. These guys don't belong on the team, and at the very least the trigger happy cowboy should be court martialed. Deadly force carries with it a solemn responsibility. Those Canadian warriors had a priceless strategic and human value, and their lives were senselessly wasted.

4 posted on 06/28/2002 2:56:12 PM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: RasterMaster
America is always the first to blame. The pilots did their job....Canada should inform us that they intend to practice in a combat zone, while everyone else is fighting.

1. The Canadians notified the American military authorities of their activities. The pilots apparently slept through this part of the briefing.

2. The pilots disobeyed orders to NOT engage the target until the location and identity could be confirmed.

3. The guy who pickled the ordnance claimed he was "rolling in in self-defense." Someone explain to me how small arms fire is a hazard to a plane operating at 23,000 feet MSL.

5 posted on 06/28/2002 3:00:00 PM PDT by Poohbah
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To: ArneFufkin
'Canadian Warriors'....you've GOT to be kidding! That aside, I still don't see the need to "practice" in a combat zone. Was a mistake, and that is all....but you and the media seem to enjoy making more of it than it was (another point the finger at the BAD AMERICANS), friendly-fire accident. The pilots aren't cowboys in the air, as you would like to believe. They are there to destroy the enemy....not play war games! Perhaps Canadians should not participate as I have never seen the value of brining "allies" in the fray, just to get in the way. Looks like Brits and Americans are doing all the work anyway.
6 posted on 06/28/2002 3:20:10 PM PDT by RasterMaster
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To: kever
My heart crys for their family and loved ones.

It's my sincere hope we make reperations to Canada for this.

7 posted on 06/28/2002 3:22:45 PM PDT by ChadGore
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To: RasterMaster
You are an asshole.And a disgrace to your OWN countrymen.
8 posted on 06/28/2002 3:23:58 PM PDT by habs4ever
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To: habs4ever
You are worthless and weak....must be Canadian?
9 posted on 06/28/2002 3:31:40 PM PDT by RasterMaster
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To: RasterMaster
America is always the first to blame. The pilots did their job....Canada should inform us that they intend to practice in a combat zone, while everyone else is fighting.

The did not do their job. The screwed up big time. Why defend the indefensible? No one is blaming America. Get a grip.

10 posted on 06/28/2002 3:35:21 PM PDT by Fzob
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Comment #11 Removed by Moderator

To: RasterMaster
The pilots did their job....Canada should inform us that they intend to practice in a combat zone, while everyone else is fighting.

They did inform us of their practice exercise. The pilot was a cowboy and a hothead. The canadians have beaten our army more times then any other nation I would not call them weak.
12 posted on 06/28/2002 3:39:14 PM PDT by Libertarian_4_eva
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To: Fzob
If they are gonna practice, should have been done BEFORE going to combat. Live fire excercise my @$$! They knew the risks.....they could have been killed falling out of bed. Asking for reparations is as bad as blacks asking for slave reparations. Exactly who defines what their lives are worth? If folks up in Canada were concerned with stamping out terrorism, why is Canada such a haven for terrorists?
13 posted on 06/28/2002 3:41:22 PM PDT by RasterMaster
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To: Libertarian_4_eva
Check your (1813) history again...when have we been at war with Canada since? They got a nice @$$ whooping and sent the English back home.
14 posted on 06/28/2002 3:44:08 PM PDT by RasterMaster
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To: RasterMaster
'Canadian Warriors'....you've GOT to be kidding! That aside, I still don't see the need to "practice" in a combat zone.

Your inability to see the need for ongoing training does not minimize its importance.

Was a mistake, and that is all....

A "mistake" is something like using the wrong fork at dinner. This guy deliberately violated orders. The ensuing deaths make this a felony murder case.

but you and the media seem to enjoy making more of it than it was (another point the finger at the BAD AMERICANS), friendly-fire accident.

Again, it was not an accident--the pilot involved willfully violated the rules of engagement. You do NOT get points for merely dropping ordnance at random. This was not a time-urgent target in any sense; the bomd-dropper could have waited a little bit.

The pilots aren't cowboys in the air, as you would like to believe.

These guys were. When the AWACS controller says "do NOT engage," and the pilot drops ordnance in spite of that order, he's being a cowboy.

They are there to destroy the enemy....

Notice that the Canadians are not the enemy.

not play war games!

And that's why these guys should be sent home for court-martial.

Perhaps Canadians should not participate as I have never seen the value of brining "allies" in the fray, just to get in the way.

They're doing a hell of a lot more than you EVER will.

Looks like Brits and Americans are doing all the work anyway.

And you most assuredly are NOT doing any of the work at all.

15 posted on 06/28/2002 3:44:17 PM PDT by Poohbah
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To: RasterMaster
Asking for reparations is as bad as blacks asking for slave reparations.

Perhaps I missed it but where in the article is anyone asking for reparations?

You really should stop. It's getting embarrassing. Your arguments are so full of holes its see-through. Yes, mistakes happen in a combat zone, when they do its best to own up to them and move on.

Advice you should heed.

16 posted on 06/28/2002 3:50:29 PM PDT by Fzob
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To: Poohbah
Apparently Canadians need to train in the most isolated areas called "combat zone".

Were you in the plane too? How do you know he DIRECTLY violated an order....the liars in the media love it when bleeding hearts lap that $hit up.

"Rules of Engagement" gets more killed than it is worth. Canadians should not be shooting at American planes either.

Demanding reparations and calling for putting Americans in prison is your way of "doing your part". What a load!

17 posted on 06/28/2002 3:51:36 PM PDT by RasterMaster
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To: Fzob
The did not do their job. The screwed up big time. Why defend the indefensible? No one is blaming America. Get a grip.

This evidently was a big-time screwup on the part of the pilots.

But I am bothered that I heard on a radio report that the American pilots may face criminal charges. This seems a bit excessive.

18 posted on 06/28/2002 3:51:42 PM PDT by Ole Okie
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To: Poohbah
My brother's "bestest" neighborhood friend flew the A-6 Intruder for 15+ years off Carriers on active duty right up to the time the Navy threw them away. I cannot articulate the bile he has for Clinton, Cohen and the Naval brass and suits during that period. That retirement cut-in has been a boondoggle, he didn't elaborate but he's not sanguine about the "upgraded" platform I take it. I remember they put the A-6s on ice, and then they spent several billion dollars upgrading F-16s with the same avionics and armaments as A-6s as a stop gap while the F-18E deployment was belatedly underway. Clinton sucked!

John told me that the most experienced and talented pilots in the world flew that ugly ass plane. The Brass ball brigade. I don't know how to gauge that, but you know those guys are, they don't bluster as a rule. But, I do understand his position: you can't throw an upgraded avionics package and weapon bay capability at a career F-16 or F-18 jock and call him a ground attack guy. The A-6 guys were craftsmen, it wasn't weaponry or avionics or the airframe ... it was their mastery of the machine, their mental approach, their judgement, their assessment of ground fire, their patience, their aim, their crazy ass exit maneuvers and their ability to go 24/7, all weather, any target any time you want it, your ass is mine! Then land on a boat. LOL Sully told me that the movement toward all purpose attack/air superiority aircraft was insane. The Navy needs pilots who could outfly and kill all enemy fighters, he said, and they also need pilots who can hit every ground target they are assigned first time every time. That's what the F-15 guys do/did for the AF, and that's what the A-6 guys did for the Navy - better than anyone else in the world for 30+ years.

Would an A-6 guy - or an A-10 specialist - have flown past this event without incident? I think so ... they know ground fire when they see it. Maybe we should take the 250 pounders off of the F-16 wings.

19 posted on 06/28/2002 3:51:44 PM PDT by ArneFufkin
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To: ChadGore
It's my sincere hope we make reperations to Canada for this.

Oh MY!

Do you mean that?

20 posted on 06/28/2002 3:52:53 PM PDT by carenot
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