Armed Passenger Prompts a Plane's Diversion

New York Times ^ | 6/24/02

[kattracks]

ETROIT, June 24 — An American Airlines plane from Newburgh, N.Y., to Chicago made an unscheduled stop here today after crew members learned that a federal employee on board had not informed airline officials that he was armed.

A spokesman for the airline said the employee, a Postal Service inspector whom they did not identify, did not disclose that he was carrying a gun when he checked in at Stewart International Airport. He proceeded to the security checkpoint, where he told New York State Police officers before passing through the metal detector that he was armed.

After the officers checked the man's credentials and asked him to sign a log indicating he was armed, he was told that he could continue to the gate.

But because the man did not tell the ticket agent that he was armed, the paperwork that the federal government requires of anyone carrying a weapon on board was never completed, the American spokesman, John Houtard, said.

American did not know that the man was carrying a gun until one of its workers noticed in the security checkpoint log that a federal employee with a gun had boarded the plane.

That employee then notified the airline, which contacted the pilot at about 9 a.m. The pilot chose to make an early landing in Detroit, where the man was questioned and it was determined that he was permitted to carry a weapon on board.

It is not clear whether the man was on official business or why he was armed. The Postal Service did not return phone calls seeking comment today.

Heather Rosenker, a spokeswoman for the Transportation Security Administration, said the standard procedure for federal agents carrying a weapon on a flight was that they notify the airline upon check-in and fill out the proper paperwork.

According to American, the postal inspector said he had never filled out such paperwork in the past, despite having traveled with a gun. American said the man maintained that he had notified airline employees that he was armed.

"We dispute that," Mr. Houtard said, because no paperwork was filled out in Newburgh.

The man did complete the paperwork in Detroit, and he was then allowed to continue to Chicago.

The Transportation Security Administration is not investigating the incident, Ms. Rosenker said, because there was no breach at the security checkpoint over which it has jurisdiction.

Sgt. Glenn Miner, a spokesman for the New York State Police, said the officers followed proper procedure at the checkpoint when they asked the man to show his federal credentials and sign a log before boarding indicating that he was armed.

"This guy was known as a postal worker," Sergeant Miner said. "He passes through there all the time."

[Libertarianize the GOP]

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[genefromjersey]

Postal Inspectors , who investigate crimes committed on or involving Postal facilities, are Federal law enforcement officers, and are normally armed.

The Postal Service should bill the airline for the services of a de-facto Air Marshal.

[genefromjersey]

Postal Inspectors , who investigate crimes committed on or involving Postal facilities, are Federal law enforcement officers, and are normally armed.

The Postal Service should bill the airline for the services of a de-facto Air Marshal.

[Atlas Sneezed]

Does anyone wonder why a postal inspector needs to be armed?

ON A COMMERCIAL FLIGHT?!

(When I can't be.)

[Marine Inspector]

Federal Law Enforcement Officers are allowed to carry their firearms aboard aircraft. Postal Inspectors are Criminal Investigators for the USPS and like all Federal LEO's have been trained (four hours of classroom instruction) in the carriage of weapons aboard an aircraft.

There were two breakdowns in the system in this case.

First, the Postal Inspector knows or should have known the procedure for taking his weapon on the aircraft (i.e. filling out the proper paperwork and submitting it too the airline).

Second, the check point security personnel should not have allowed him past security without the paperwork.

[Atlas Sneezed]

I know that they are trained and allowed, but why do these federal thugs need a loaded gun ON THE PLANE when their perilous duties are on the ground at their destinations? Why can't they just put them in their checked baggage like we peons do? (Of course, I would prefer that pilots and passengers be allowed to carry for their own security.)

[Marine Inspector]

Why can't they just put them in their checked baggage like we peons do?

Two reasons. First, when you place a weapon in your checked luggage, it readily tagged, and an easy target for the thieves that work at the airport.

Second, The officer needs his weapon, when he arrives at his destination, what happens when he arrives in Chicago and his weapon arrives in San Francisco?

We carry our weapons, either on our person or a briefcase in our possession. We are no supposed to use the weapon on the plane, unless it is the last resort to save lives. We are not armed to protest the plane or passengers, it is just them most sensible way for an LEO to transport his weapon.

Also, I don't consider regular passengers peons. If the Federal Government let the airlines run their airlines, do you really think the airlines would let you fly armed?

Flying is a privilege, not a right. An LEO flying armed is a privilege, not a right. The Federal Government did not force airlines to allow LEO's to fly armed, the airlines granted that privilege to the Federal Government. There are airlines the will not allow us LEO's to fly armed.

All the FAA did , was to put restrictions on how it would be done.

[Marine Inspector]

Another thing, is LEO's are supposed to going to work at their destination to fly armed. We are not supposed to fly armed if we are vacation or off duty. Although it does sometime happen.

[Atlas Sneezed]

...when you place a weapon in your checked luggage, it readily tagged, and an easy target for the thieves that work at the airport.

Actually, we peons are forced to do this anyway, and if the elite had to face the same risk, they might help us get the rules changed. In reality, there is no externally visible tag.

Second, The officer needs his weapon, when he arrives at his destination, what happens when he arrives in Chicago and his weapon arrives in San Francisco?

Same as if his plane is delayed or diverted. He just has to adapt to these preposterously rare instances. Just like us peons.

We carry our weapons, either on our person or a briefcase in our possession. We are no supposed to use the weapon on the plane, unless it is the last resort to save lives.

Every citizen deserves this same right.

We are not armed to protest the plane or passengers, it is just them most sensible way for an LEO to transport his weapon.

Same for us peons.

If the Federal Government let the airlines run their airlines, do you really think the airlines would let you fly armed?

Freedom is an uncertain thing. Let's give it a whirl. (And let's have laws that do not allow airlines to discriminate against pelple based on government employee status.)

There are airlines the will not allow us LEO's to fly armed.

Which ones? I'd prefer to patronize a business that does not make me a second class citizen behind those who supposedly serve the public.

Another thing, is LEO's are supposed to going to work at their destination to fly armed.

The key point is that peons don't have the merest chance to fly armed, even when we can articulate a necessity, while the expanding ranks of the bureaucratic LEO elite can fly armed without any articulation of necessity to be armed while on the plane.

[Marine Inspector]

In reality, there is no externally visible tag.

Just goes to prove you peons are misinformed and unknowledgeable. How much time do you spend at airports and looking at luggage.

For me it's only about 50 hours a week, not much time to see those bright yellow security tags on the bags the circle around the luggage carousel that is a mere 25 feet from my work station.

Good day peon.

[tracer]

Stupid pilot. Why not just take an extra 15 minutes and land in Chicago as scheduled, rather than disrupting the travel of his passengers?? Making a statement, no doubt...

[Atlas Sneezed]

Every time I have flown with a firearm in my checked baggage, the orange tag went inside the luggage. There was NO externally visible tag that identified the bag as having a gun.

Here is an excerpt from NWA policies, the first I found as an example to confirm my experience with other airlines:

Passenger must verbally declare firearm is unloaded. NW requires firearm unloaded tag be signed by passenger. Tag must be placed inside of luggage containing firearm. No exterior tag nor notice of firearm may appear on case. Case must be locked and only the passenger may retain the key or combination. NW/KLM personnel will not unload or handle firearms. Gun and ammunition may be in the same piece of luggage. However, ammunition must be within its own packaging.

Sometimes, the peons know more than the government employee that spends 50 hours per week on the same subject.