Microsoft .Net software's hidden cost

Yahoo ^ | Sat Jun 22,11:11 AM ET | Joe Wilcox

[Dominic Harr]

But you don't say it should be tested heavily before mission critical release.

No, I say it shouldn't be used for mission-critical work *until* it has been tested heavily on smaller tools.

An honest, correct assessment I've applied to every single new tech I've ever dealt with.

And no one ever consider that 'damning' or 'insulting', until now.

Because I'm a Java develeloper, so if I say it, I am to be attacked.

That is the 'common' thread. MS-only folks flame Mac folks because they like Macs, Linux folks because they like Linux, Java folks because they like Java . . .

Meanwhile, an MS-only person can say the most insane, outrageous, insulting, rude things and ya'll don't bat an eye.

Ya'll flame me because I'm a Java developer, and Java 'threatens' your MS-only world.

[discostu]

Sorry Dom, people do consider it insulting. You can tell just by watching the tone of their posts. They might not say it outright, but it's there. Just check your early stuff here with Jeeves, by post 40, only a handful of exchanges, he's screaming at you.

I love how I've told multiple times why I hate your guts and everytime you come back wit "oh it's because I'm a Java guy, nobody likes the Java guy, all the MSers hate the Java guy, poor lonely Java guy". It's the classic example of everything that's wrong with you. you refuse to believe anything that goes against preconception. You've decided why people don't like you and no matter how often they tell you you're full of it you still know their mind better than they do so you'll just ignore what they said and still with your sacred cow.

I don't like Macheads because they call me a Widiot. I don't like Linuxers because they always blather on about the glories of free and i just can't get with people that think profit and financial stability are bad. I like all the Java people I've met who's names aren't Dominic Harr. Java used to threaten the MS only world, I know back then I was a MSbasher. I really cheered for Java. Then MS screwed Sun up the patootie and Sun just made it worse by trying to sue them into compliance with a poorly written contract that MS only signed to screw Sun over anyway. At that point I decided the folks in charge of Java were too stupid to live, which says nothing about Java developers either good or bad, and it became clear that eventually they'd find a way to drive java out of the marketplace without any help from MS.

As for what MS only people can get away with it's a whole different FR when you're not around. I've had arguements with almost all of the other MSers around here, but nobody can match you for wild goofiness beyond the pale of all sensibility. When you're around other people's sins just don't look as bad, they pale in comparison to the harsh light of your madness. You really should just read a few threads, it's hard not to throw in but you get a very interesting to see how things go when you're not contributing to the thread. Gives you a new perspective on the relative worth of your posts.

[Dominic Harr]

Sorry Dom, people do consider it insulting.

Only MS-only folks defending their sacred turf.

And you do have the same problems with others, and in every instance you blame *everyone* else but yourself.

Based on what happened above, it's clear you are willing to ignore plain and simple truths that are clearly stated, even to the point of pretending that clearly worded statements don't mean what they say.

So of course I don't take truck with your claim of "it's just that Harr is *such* a jerk! Oh, and the Mac folks, and Linux folks, and -- heck, everyone who isn't an MS-only person is a Jerk!"

Here's an interesting parallel:

Is this thread an "insult" to CSC?

If I posted something like that about MS, ya'll would flame me to high heaven. Let's watch and see what happens, and how CSC employees act.

[discostu]

Oh your back on the "Jeeves was unclear kick" funny how you never said that to him. Funny how when he offered the same translation I did and explanation for why he used those shortcuts you just accepted it without question.

Oh you probably saw the thread with JM233 or whatever the handle is. JM233 was being a jerk, first trying to tell everybody what to do then denying that was her(?) intent. Notice in the same thread I got into serious discussion with somebody else but we kept it cool. Of course if you check me on the morality threads I'll usually be pretty intense, I only hit those threads when I'm in a crappy mood. if you dig into the ancient history you'll see Aquinasfan and I have had some great discussions on the ever popular Potter threads. I disagree with just about everything the guy says on those but I like his style. Recently I ran into him again and his stuff was just bizaare, hopefully with the 2nd movie and 5th book coming out AF will get his stride back. I miss those arguements they were really fun and unlike the ones with you I not only got to use my brain I had to.

Don't misquote me. I said you're a jerk, Macheads are insane, Linux people are just wierd, and I like Java coders (that aren't named Dominic Harr) but I feel bad for them because the company that gives them their language is run by fools and will eventually destroy the language with their own stupidity. I also indicated that I had some serious arguements with MSonly people, but only while you're in the crapper.

So far the CSC thread is just news. You're only comment is regurgitated from the original post. On a more personal note since it was people we hired from CSC that pretty much destroyed the last company I was at you can say anything bad about them you want. Based on the sample set we hired I'll boldly put forth that CSCers are vile shallow conivers that will steel the fruits of others' labor and not even feel bad when a company has to RIF 20% of its employees because of what their machinations did to the money supply. I'll even give you permission to quote that and will back you up if anybody calls you on it.

But, back to what you've written there, notice you put in nothing defaming those that have hired CSC or used their stuff, nor do you comment on the quality of said stuff. It's vastly different from anything I've seen you write in any MS thread. I certainly wouldn't flame you for a post like that on MS, if you could keep the zingers and half truths away, if you accept evidence to the contrary without proclaiming a vast conspiracy there'd be no problem. But when MS is the subject you simply cannot do it.

[Dominic Harr]

Oh your back on the "Jeeves was unclear kick" funny how you never said that to him.

Because he admitted that his original post was incorrect, and posted a correction. You're going to the *wall* trying to deny that the first post was inaccuarate at all.

I said you're a jerk, Macheads are insane, Linux people are just wierd,

Again, when you have problems with *everyone* talking about tech, then it's most likely YOU are the one with the problem.

You're only comment is regurgitated from the original post.

I specifically said, " I know CSC has serious problems, and tends to tool over their clients and such as is outlined here, but it also seems to be an industry wide problem."

You *can't* be so blind as to not realize that had I said this about MS you and your cohorts would have instantly shown up and burned me and that thread to the ground.

Ya'll would absolutely have said that is, "defaming" to any MS workers.

Altho I'm sure you can't even admit that much . . .

Personally, I predict that most CSCers will just read that and nod.

Based on the sample set we hired I'll boldly put forth that CSCers are vile shallow conivers that will steel the fruits of others' labor and not even feel bad when a company has to RIF 20% of its employees because of what their machinations did to the money supply.

Well -- not *all* of us, but yes, that is a good description of a large % of my company. I despise the entire concept of 'outsourcing'. I hope I can launch a good discussion of that, in that thread.

You see? I *work* for CSC. I criticize *everyone* when they screw up. Even my own company. I dish it out, and take it.

The MS-only 'circle the wagons and attack/flame/insult anyone who criticizes MS or says good things about MS competitors' behavior is very, very unusual in tech circles. For one thing, that almost always is a sign of someone who is very insecure about their abilities and knowledge.

Face it. If I had posted that about MS, you'd be saying all the same things you are here.

No, you probably can't admit any error on your part, from what I see. Not even one as blindingly obvious as this. Oh, well.

Just consider: When you have a problem with everyone else, the problem is likely you.

[discostu]

I don't have a problem with everybody else. I have a problem with you. YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU. you're annoying. Shut up go away freaking drop it. Any relatively sane person wouuld have apologized two days ago, even if they didn't mean it. Why am I not in the least surprised that you work for CSC. It's so very typical of the CSC mentality that when told you're insulting instead of just sucking it up and being civilized you stand there and chant "no I'm not can't prove it" over and over and over. That's how small and petty you are Dom, you can't even say "gee, I didn't mean it to be offensive but I guess people could been insulted, I'm sorry, no harm intended", no you have to spend days telling people that what they think is wrong. I even gave you the out, I even said that I was sure it was unintentional. I opend the freaking door and held up a big sign saying "gentlemanly way to settle dispute straight ahead", but you couldn't take it because you can't admit to any form of error. Well I'm sorry to have to tell you this Dom but when somebody feels insulted over something you said they're never wrong. They can't be wrong, because it was THEIR feeling hurt, just because you didn't mean it doesn't mean you didn't do it. And that's one of the things you do, you constantly cast broadsides against anybody that uses MS stuff. I still don't think you mean to insult them, for some stupid reason I'm still willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you do. Intentional or not, you do, constantly.

[Jefferson Adams]

Fortunately, you can reset the Help format to behave more rationally.

Coolness.

Thanks for the help on Help on Help!

[Dominic Harr]

Well I'm sorry to have to tell you this Dom but when somebody feels insulted over something you said they're never wrong. They can't be wrong, because it was THEIR feeling hurt, just because you didn't mean it doesn't mean you didn't do it.

Whenever somebody feels insulted, they're never wrong?

We're farther apart in mind-sets than I could have imagined.

In the world I inhabit, we tell it like it is. If you're thin-skinned, that's your fault. If someone says something untrue, then you can be insulted. But if someone's right, and you get insulted, then YOU have a problem.

In fact, I can't *stand* sensitive people who you have to dance around, being careful not to say anything to hurt their oh-so-sensative feelings.

Especially when talking tech. Things either work or they don't. Some things are better than others.

You can *not* take it personally if someone else thinks they know a better way to do things, and tells you you wasted time and money doing it another way.

That's pathetic, and a sure sign of a developer who is more worried about their 'self image' than doing a good job.

[discostu]

Whatever dude. Go start another thread of lies. We've rehashed this a hundred times and it still boils down to the same thing. You lied, you insulted, you ignored evidence against you and you'll never admit to anything ever. I'm bored with this one. I need new lies from you to attack, these lies are dead and buried.

[Dominic Harr]

We've rehashed this a hundred times and it still boils down to the same thing.

In fact, every single one of these threads boils down to the same thing -- the MS-only crowd who sees MS as beyond criticism, and anyone who uses non-MS technology as a 'threat' to be attacked.

And we will meet again. I'll spout the truth, you'll obfuscate and whine about 'feelings' being hurt by uncomfortable truths and words posted don't mean what they clearly say.

I've been doing this since the early 90s, on Usenet. You're about the 30th MS-only person I've had this exact same problem with. And you all have problems with any non-MS-only techie. Yet I've never had any problems with anyone else.

When you have the same problem with everyone, then you are likely the one with the problem.

[discostu]

If you ever start being truthful in these threads I'll give you all kinds of ammo. Until that day, if it ever comes, i'll be too busy refuting your silliness to resume my rightful position as MS critic.

[Dominic Harr]

I'll give you all kinds of ammo

Mainly I don't want your ammo, because I'm seriously not here to criticize MS as a company -- except when they break the law, I suppose.

I'm here to talk tech. And the only 'ammo' I want is some real-life case studies of .NET development from real developers.

You so misunderstand the situation here with me it's astounding.

[discostu]

I think you're the one misunderstanding your situation here. At best you spend about 5% of your posts on tech. The rest is hammering MS or declaring evidence that supports MS invalid. You're not here to talk tech, I think it only happens on accident.

[discostu]

check out up through post 20 over here http://www.freerepublic.com/fo cus/news/706287/posts. Just like I outlined. Everything is nice and civil, so the Mac guy has to insert his own flame from the PC people. And none of your usual suspect are in it up to that point B2K joins in later, I might join in haven't decided yet.

[discostu]

oops. Post 21 is where the imaginary flame hits.

[dheretic]

like the idea that since open source software "powers" the Internet, a left wing group of anarchists could use that code to write a crippling virus that destroys all Internet communication and commerce in protest of globalization

Scott, do you actually do any software development? I cannot conceive of any decently talented software developer spouting off the rubbish that you do. If you know so much about software development that you can make such bold statements about the "inherent insecurities" of open source software then you would know that virii written for one UNIX will typically not run on another without being at least recompiled. You would also know that each service has its own user account and that unless the virus is run as root it won't be able to affect that service. Regular users don't have the permissions to activate or deactivate daemons.

Isn't it funny Scott that no major UNIX has ever suffered from the plague of worms that Microsoft's software has? How many times has the UNIX world, which does Scott, beat Win NT in marketshare on the serverside, had periods of a few years where new, crippling worms appeared every month or so? How many times Scott have major UNIX vendors had to recall server products because a poorly written module for a protocol lets an outsider root the box? How many times have people made such alarmist statements but nothing happened? Too many to count. Face it Scott, you're just trying to be a Techie chicken little.

[Dominic Harr]

The link doesn't get me anywhere -- 404.

I'd seriously like to look, if you feel like providing a link.

Considering how different your assessment of this thread's posts were from what I see.

[discostu]

Damn auto linking hosed my thing up, click on the link in the address it puts in your bar just delete the period at the end then make it load that address. Overall the thread's nice and mellow, in the 50s toupsie tries to start some fuss but nobody bites. B2K even makes an assertion and later has it backed up by Apple (well quotes from Apple). See we can play nice together.

[discostu]

Oops not toupsie, toddhistavva. I'm so bad with names.

[Dominic Harr]

"Play nice together"?

There's no hope with you then, if you think that's "playing nice" with mac-heads.

The very thread title and lead post was a dig at apple, then the 2nd post was a flame from an MS-only person!

I repeat -- the first flame of the thread was the 2nd post, from an MS-only person!

I repost:

Of course, I am sure that the whiners (Apple, Oracle, AOL, et al.) will find a way to blame all of their failures on Microsoft, specifically the EEEEEVIL Bill Gates.
What a frickin' joke!

And *still* no Mac-head flamed back.

Okay, I'll agree. That's a perfect example of what happens.

MS folks say bad things about Apples, flame all mac heads, drop a dozen or so posts saying bad things about Macs, then a Mac-head responds politely and you complain.

It's official. You appear to have no objectivity on this topic. MS-only people can do no wrong, non-MS techies can do no right.

I'm a Jerk. Mac-heads are insane, Linux folks are just wierd.

You really think that was 'playing nice' with mac-heads? And then you have the nerve to say *I* was insulting above?

This is gooooood stuff, dude.