[Hajman]

You seem to be confused about the relationship between reason and logic. Logic requires the use of reason, but reason can be used for more than logic; creating a beautiful work of music, for instance; or recognizing important "self evident" truths as America's forefathers did.

It appears we're talking past each other. When I use the term 'Reason', I'm using it in the sense how it pertains to logic (dictionary.com defines it as such). I usually don't associate things such as developing a beautiful work of music with reason, due to how I understand reason. Reason and logic should be objective, however, such things as lovely pieces of music are subjective (though more atomic parts, such as harmonies, can be quantified, and therefore brought into a more objective point of view).

Perhaps we should move from the concept of reason (which we both apparently understand differently), into the concept of objectivism (not naturalism). I do this because I don't believe you'll apply subjectivism for the current subject of Unaliable Rights (if you do, then 'Rights' become defined by the observer, and there can be no universal Unaliable Rights, as defined). Can you come up with an objective way to define such things as Unaliable Rights?

-The Hajman-

[thinktwice]

Perhaps we should move from the concept of reason (which we both apparently understand differently), into the concept of ...

Wrods mean things, so the best thing to do is get a comprehensive dictionary and use it to communicate with others. Man is the only creature we know that has reason and rational powers; and reason itself is under attack by those seeking power over human minds.

Older dictionaries -- forty years old or more -- are preferable because linguistics analysis (a philosophy based on language, not reality and reason) folks are working hard to confuse human mental processes (Note -- see the recent CyberCowboy777 posts defining "fascism.").

Meanwhile, the term "linguistic analysis" is not in any of my old dictionaries (help is requested please someone, look it up and post it), but the word linguistics has changed just enough over time to give you a clue ...

1936 Webster's Collegiate 5th ed. -- linguistics, ... the study of human speech including the origin, structure, and modification of language ...
1963 Webster's Seventh New Collegiate -- linguistics ... the study of human speech including the units, nature, structure, and modification of language ...
1984 Webster's New World -- linguistics ... the science of language, including phonology, morhology, syntax, and semantics.

The words "reason" and "rational" are worth looking at, too; but their definitions are too long to include.

[thinktwice]

Perhaps we should move from the concept of reason (which we both apparently understand differently), into the concept of objectivism (not naturalism).

The "pebble" of post 1567 turned out to be a sesame seed; I'm going to frame it.

Cheers.