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Wrong, I know truth can be derived from reason.

The simpliest example concerns every word defined in dictionaries. When humans develop a concept, they combine perceptual inputs with reason to define that concept -- every word in your dictionary covers one or more concepts, some simple and some complex, all of which are "truths" derived from reason until proven otherwise.

There are higher level examples, dealing with abstractions -- and abstractions from abstractions -- all of which is covered well, using simple words, in Ayn Rand's Epistemology book. Where does your "truth" come from?

What is "truth"? Truth is simply what is. What isn't, is not truth. Truth exists independent of our ability to comprehend or derive it. We can use reason to determine certain truths, however reason can not create truth. Reason/logic define validity, not truth. Unless you already know that all the premises you base your conclusion on are true, and that your conclusion is valid, reason can't make an assertion that a specific conclusion is true. This is from an objective viewpoint. If one assumes the premises to be true, then one can come to an assumed true conclusion. But assumed is all it is. This is the realm of opinion, not truth. Define the true, pre-existing premises that such things as inaliable rights are built from. I don't think I'll hold my breath for too long.

-The Hajman-

Define the true, pre-existing premises that such things as inaliable rights are built from. I don't think I'll hold my breath for too long.

The concept of inalienable rights presupposes ...

The existence of a Supreme Being.
That man was created in the image of that Supreme Being; man is related to God, so to speak.

Would you say those are rational assumptions?

Define the true, pre-existing premises that such things as inaliable rights are built from. I don't think I'll hold my breath for too long.

My earlier post provided premises for the religious concept of inalienable rights. Let me add to that ...

America's founders defined man's inalienable rights -- the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness --as "self evident" truths.

The founders used secular and rational truths, the primary one being man's right to life.

What a nice choice of words -- "Self evident." Might I also add that Ayn Rand's fully developed and published Ethics is founded in man's self evident right to life?

What is "truth"? Truth is simply what is. What isn't, is not truth.

Your statement contains non-contradictory points inherent in Objectivism's approach to truth, a three step process that I'd summarize as follows ...

1. Reality is that which exists -- that which "is" as you say it.
2. Truth is the recognition of reality -- the individual realizing that which "is."
3. Reason is man's standard for knowing truth -- the individual deriving truths of reality from perceptions that are evaluated using reason.

We can use reason to determine certain truths, however reason can not create truth.

Close, but not quite right ...

Man has the ability, using the rational faculty of reason, to create art, literature, buildings, inventions -- things that are not yet real and cannot, as yet, be recognized as real; i.e., not true now, but recognizable as truths of reality (it exists!) upon creation.

Reason/logic define validity, not truth. Unless you already know that all the premises you base your conclusion on are true, and that your conclusion is valid, reason can't make an assertion that a specific conclusion is true.

You seem to be confused about the relationship between reason and logic. Logic requires the use of reason, but reason can be used for more than logic; creating a beautiful work of music, for instance; or recognizing important "self evident" truths as America's forefathers did.

I've read that Ayn Rand would often end conversations with the words ... "Check your premises."