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Brazil eyes Russia's 'Super Flanker' fighter
Reuters via Yahoo ^ | Axel Bugge

Posted on 06/05/2002 12:52:18 PM PDT by NormsRevenge

BRASILIA, Brazil, June 4 (Reuters) - Russia's Sukhoi Su-35 fighter jet has a "close to 90 percent" chance of being the winner in a Brazilian tender to buy up to 24 new supersonic fighters for $700 million, Sukhoi's Brazilian partner said on Tuesday.

The purchase, which may be decided next week, is set to be one of the biggest arms deals in recent Latin American history and is hotly contested by such heavyweights as Lockheed Martin Corp. (NYSE:LMT - News) with its F-16 fighter, BAE Systems Plc (London:BA.L - News) and Brazil's Embraer (Sao Paolo:EMBR4.SA - News; NYSE:ERJ - News) together with France's Dassault Aviation SA (Paris:AVMD.PA - News).

But Sukhoi's bid with its so-called Su-35 Super Flanker fighter is likely to beat them all, said Joao Brasil, a director at Brazilian rocket and missile maker Avibras Aerospacial SA, which will help produce the Russian jet if the partners win the contract.

Sweden's (Stockholm:SAABb.ST - News) Saab is bidding in the contest together with BAE with its Gripen fighter, while Embraer and Dassault are offering a version of Dassault's Mirage strike plane.

"We are not opening the Champagne bottles until next week," Brasil told Reuters, but added that "we are getting close to 90 percent" certainty of winning. "All the circumstantial evidence is pointing that way."

A report in daily Folha de Sao Paulo over the weekend said that Brazil's Air Force had pinpointed the Su-35 as its first choice in the competition on technical grounds, listing qualities such as its long flying range and extensive reach of its radar systems in addition to low price tag.

"If we can confirm that we are chosen technically, then we are sure to have won," said Brasil, adding that he had not seen the Air Force report as it had not been released.

However, politics and not just technicalities will enter into the play when the decision is taken. President Fernando Henrique Cardoso, the heads of both houses of Congress, the finance minister and defense ministers all sit on the council that has the final say.

While there have been previous delays in the tender, Brasil said the council is expected to meet on June 12 and formally announce its decision on June 15. The government has not said when it will make the final decision.

Sector experts have seen Embraer and Dassault as the likeliest winners because their bid offers an element of local production to the jets if they win, securing jobs for the country's flagship company. Embraer has said it could produce a special version of Dassault's Mirage here, known as the 2000-BR, which could one day be exported to other countries.

Embraer is the world's fourth largest civilian airplane maker and Brazil's top exporter.

Brasil disputes Embraer's argument that it would be the only company offering some production of its plane locally, saying Sukhoi and Avibras would do the same and that the Su-35 could also eventually be made in Brazil for export.

In transcripts from a special Congressional testimony on the deal sent by e-mail to Reuters, Brasil quoted a senior Air Force member as saying: "This plane (the Mirage) will not be produced in Brazil."

Embraer has not explicitly said what part of the production process would take place in Brazil.

Brasil said what his company will do locally in the production of the Su-35 is to write the software for the plane, in addition to the arms, systems and electronics integration.

Additionally, Brasil said his company and Russia would jointly build a $220 million service center in Brazil, ensuring that all repairs and maintenance will be done here -- the only bidders in the competition offering such followup.

Brasil, whose company teamed up with Sukhoi during a visit to Russia earlier this year by Brazil's President Fernando Henrique Cardoso, said a deal with Russia would also offer the greatest advantages in other areas such as increased trade.

"(Russian President Vladimir) Putin was very assertive in showing Russia's interest in presenting this bid," when he met with Cardoso, Brasil said. "If this bid is seen from a country-to-country scenario in terms of which country Brazil can triple or quadruple its trade with, the answer is Russia."


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: latinamericalist; sukhoi
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The Competition in the 21st Century ?




1 posted on 06/05/2002 12:52:18 PM PDT by NormsRevenge
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To: *Latin_America_list
*Index Bump
2 posted on 06/05/2002 12:55:35 PM PDT by Fish out of Water
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To: NormsRevenge
Why does Brazil need these planes and are the Super Flankers a better aircraft than our F-16?
3 posted on 06/05/2002 1:02:28 PM PDT by bybybill
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To: bybybill
Sounds like they are cheaper. Russia grasps the concept of the free market.
4 posted on 06/05/2002 1:06:39 PM PDT by Redcrosse
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To: bybybill
Also, Russian equipment requires less maintenance and can take off from unimproved runways. That might be appealing in a large third world country like Brazil. They used to have worse avionics, although I don't know if that is still true.
5 posted on 06/05/2002 1:14:36 PM PDT by Gladwin
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To: bybybill
Why does Brazil need these planes and are the Super Flankers a better aircraft than our F-16?

Shark Patrol and keeping the rain forest indigs at bay. Reports are that it is more maneuverable than both the F-16 and F-15.

6 posted on 06/05/2002 1:20:28 PM PDT by TADSLOS
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To: Gladwin
Yes, Russian Avionics do not match ours. Probably wouldn't matter that much to Brazil
as although not as advanced as ours, they are much better than anything they will likely
encounter in South America. The ability to land at less than perfect runways is very important.
7 posted on 06/05/2002 1:25:05 PM PDT by Warren
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To: bybybill
"Why does Brazil need these planes and are the Super Flankers a better aircraft than our F-16?"

The SU-35 is designed to be an air superiority fighter, much like the F-15. The F-16 is a small fighter that is as effective as a air-to-ground bomber as it is an air-to-air fighter. Comparing the two is difficult. In close, the F-16 would eat this boat alive, but the SU-35 is designed to excel in dogfights at medium to long range. The supercruising F-22 is the aircraft designed specifically to deal with aircraft at medium and long ranges, but at 700 million a copy, I don't think Brazil wants any.

8 posted on 06/05/2002 1:28:43 PM PDT by ScreamingFist
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To: ScreamingFist
Nope. 700 million for 1 aircraft :-) The Brazilians are good at math ... at least
9 posted on 06/05/2002 1:31:52 PM PDT by NormsRevenge
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To: ScreamingFist
Yup, and under $30 million per unit for the 24 plane order, that does appear to be a very competitive bid. What price is the F-16 coming in at nowadays?
10 posted on 06/05/2002 1:33:32 PM PDT by Paul Ross
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To: Paul Ross
That may be the strange part here as the F-16 has sold for anywhere from 22-35 million over the last couple of years depending on fleecibility of the buyer and the competition ... The F-22 will go for 200 million a shot not 700 million quite but still a chunk of change for a single aircraft

The Project On Government Oversight


Five Weapons That Bilk the Taxpayers $125 Billion That Could Help Pay for Defense Budget Increases
11 posted on 06/05/2002 1:44:17 PM PDT by NormsRevenge
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To: NormsRevenge
why are they painted camo, when they dont fly through the forests?
12 posted on 06/05/2002 1:51:35 PM PDT by Delbert
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To: bybybill
Probably better in all areas than the F-16 except avionics. Same for the F-15. Russian aerodynamicists are very talented! The MiG-29 was a fairly even match for the F-16 (though maybe not the earlier F-16A)and that was before MiG used a fly-by-wire control system. The Su-27 and Su-35 are a couple of good reasons to have the F-22.
13 posted on 06/05/2002 1:57:42 PM PDT by GBA
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To: Gladwin
Also, Russian equipment requires less maintenance

As a generic statement, the above is a myth.

It's been by and large QUITE true of small arms, such as the AK-47 vs. the M-16, etc., and people have wrongly extended it to all Russian equipment.

Many Russian aircraft and Russian tanks actually are harder to maintain and require more maintenance than American equipment; same is true of their ships and submarines

As one example, Russian tanks have automatic loaders and one less crewman than US tanks (our tanks have their guns loaded by hand.) The autoloaders are a big maintanance headache, and also dangerous; they've amputated the arms of a fair number of tankers.

14 posted on 06/05/2002 2:09:28 PM PDT by John H K
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To: NormsRevenge
The F-22 will go for 200 million a shot not 700 million quite but still a chunk of change for a single aircraft"

Your numbers are more accurate, thanks for the correction; BUT Mr. Fist says "expect to see that price at least double"

"The F-22 is already the Pentagon's most expensive weapons project - at least until the Joint Strike Fighter begins production in another nine years of a planned 3,000 planes. This anticipated new cost overrun in the F-22 development phase pushes the total anticipated program cost to nearly $63 billion - and counting - with only the first six of 339 planes paid for to date." cdi.org

15 posted on 06/05/2002 2:09:40 PM PDT by ScreamingFist
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Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

To: Redcrosse
Sounds like they are cheaper. Russia grasps the concept of the free market.

Exactly. And Brazil does too.

17 posted on 06/05/2002 2:17:57 PM PDT by fogarty
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To: GBA
"The MiG-29 was a fairly even match for the F-16 (though maybe not the earlier F-16A)and that was before MiG used a fly-by-wire control system."

Ahhh, someone that knows their F-16's! :) The early "A" models were so light and agile it was a wonder to behold. One of my all time "lifes greatest moments" was watching Neil Anderson do his Paris Airshow routine, it was freekin unbelievable! I have yet to ever see any other aircraft (and yes, I've seen the Flanker and their fancy, high AOA cobra manuevers. Anderson could have pulled a 360 degree 9 G turn around that aircraft by the time the russian pilot finally got the nose back down) even come close. Does anyone know what the SU-27/35 are G limited at?

18 posted on 06/05/2002 2:20:48 PM PDT by ScreamingFist
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To: ScreamingFist
No problem, either way, we're talking serious dinaro ... The thought that a B1B bomber is worth almost 300 million a pop and the F-22 will eclipse that.. Ouch

B-1B Lancer Bomber

19 posted on 06/05/2002 2:20:55 PM PDT by NormsRevenge
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To: NormsRevenge
bump
20 posted on 06/05/2002 2:23:37 PM PDT by VOA
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