"Learning While Black": Racially profiling in the classroom?

National Review Online ^ | May 30, 2002 | Roger Clegg

[CatoRenasci]

Indeed. Proving that those of us in the '60s who argued against the form of affirmative action we have today were correct. Then many of us argued for a form that would identify kids with talent (through testing and recommendations of teachers), send them to community/junior college for whatever remedial work was necessary until they could meet the University (of California's) standards for admission, and then send them on scholarship (if needed) where they would compete on an even, color blind footing.

As a black woman law school classmate of mine put it over 20 years ago: I wouldn't be here without affirmative action, but I want my daughter to get in here on the numbers!

[wny]

Why are there never any articles titled "Being Awarded Government Contracts Due To MBE Quotas While Black"?

[mafree]

Thanks for the ping.

I have to say that there is some "racial profiling" in schools in a couple of major ways:

1) Certain attitudes and actions are considered "acceptable" among many Blacks, including a little more outward vocal and physical expressiveness, which is sometimes misinterpreted as being too loud or even violent by Whites.

2. There are sometimes double standards and there are numerous instances where a Black student was disciplined more harshly than a White student for the same offense or in a Black-White conflict.

These things have happened, but it would be no more fair to paint all stories like this with the brush of "racial profiling" than it is to use the brush of theories like McWhorter's. To me both have some truth to them but neither fully explains the problem.

[NativeNewYorker]

he is worried about "the D and F on his latest report card and whether they will affect his prospects for studying architecture in college

I laughed right out loud when I saw this.

One of the black kids I interviewed for an undergraduate slot at Cornell last year told me he wanted to study architecture.

He couldn't identify a favorite building. He couldn't name an architectural style. He couldn't name a favorite architect.

His cluelessness was astonishing. He wouldn't have lasted one week on a serious college campus.

[mhking]

His cluelessness was astonishing. He wouldn't have lasted one week on a serious college campus.

And the NEA clonetroopers who inhabit the classrooms of America aren't doing a damned thing to help change this! If there is a problem, then you would think that the teachers would go out of their way to try to help these kids either move forward toward a goal of attending college, or identify what problems exist so that they can be eradicated. Unfortunately, most of the clonetroopers are only interested in their next paycheck and whatever they can do outside of helping their students. They would rather the students fend for themselves.

And woe unto them when/if they end up with me as one of their parents. They thought life was "bad" before...[lol]

[CatoRenasci]

Certain attitudes and actions are considered "acceptable" among many Blacks, including a little more outward vocal and physical expressiveness, which is sometimes misinterpreted as being too loud or even violent by Whites.

No, whites do not misinterpret the vocal and physical behavior and attitudes. Those attitudes and behavior are simply not acceptable to whites. That's just a fact, and no posturing or 'understanding' is going to change whites reaction. If blacks want to persist in those attitudes and behaviors in institutions governed by white standards, they cannot complain of punishment.

[KSCITYBOY]

Any culture that puts a priorty on learning will achive - cultures that don't won't. Only liberals think it's the skin color.

[NativeNewYorker]

On first appearances, you are right. It is easy and often correct to assume a black kid in a good college is there because of a quota-like system.

But my experience as a college interviewer leads me to think that once you get past that first thought, the student's real worth becomes apparant in the course of time, and the quota cases soon self-select out of truly competitive situations.

What is telling, from my experience, is that US-born blacks, or those here from very early childhood, lag way way behind recent immigrants from the DR in terms of mental agility, energy and preparation. It is chilling.

[Tired of Taxes]

This type of attitude kills me, too, MHKING. Liberal programs like affirmative action do promote racist stereotypes. They hurt more than they help. So do stupid articles like the one above in Time magazine. Unfortunately, there are many bigots on both the Right and the Left. My husband is African-American (I'm not). He earned a scholarship to a university on his own merit, but once there white students assumed he was admitted due to his skin color. African-Americans do have to outperform everyone else to be taken seriously. You also have to dress better and speak better than everyone else. My sons are young, but our oldest is smart as a whip. Taught himself to read at age 4. He was reading astronomy books by age 5. Takes after his dad, not me.

[Tired of Taxes]

Correction... that Time article wasn't stupid. The attitudes it criticized were stupid.

[mafree]

Those attitudes and behavior are simply not acceptable to whites. That's just a fact, and no posturing or 'understanding' is going to change whites reaction.

That's true, but sometimes Whites are a little too "uptight" about such behavior, which should only be put in check if it goes too far. Some people over-react when they don't have to.

If blacks want to persist in those attitudes and behaviors in institutions governed by white standards, they cannot complain of punishment.

I agree, but maybe the standards should be modified or else don't complain when Blacks set up their own institutions with their own standards.

[Phantom Lord]

Institutions governed by "white standards". What are these institutions?

I think the proper, correct, and accurate term should have been 'standards of civility.'

[Henrietta]

Not only do they have to excel, but they have to excel above and beyond even the high achievers from the remainder of the mainstream students in order to prove that they did not get where they were because of someone's sick sense of tokenism.

And then the sad thing is that even when they do graduate and start practicing a profession, they are continually handicapped by the stigma of affirmative action. For example, knowing what I do about affirmative action in graduate and professional schools, I doubt very much if I would ever hire a black doctor or a black lawyer. I don't like that state of affairs, but when your life or property is on the line, and you need the best doctor or the best lawyer, you can't risk that the person whom you've hired is not among the best and brightest.

This truly saddens me. I'm sure that all liberals (and maybe even some FReepers would cite my personal feelings as proof that I am a racist. I have these feelings because of my experiences with affirmative action, and wish that my experiences had been different. But as long as we have such discriminatory policies that prevent true competition and don't require people of color to meet the same standards as white folks, I and other good people like me will continue to view black professionals with a certain degree of caution and have reservations about hiring one for our personal needs. Like I said, it makes me sad.

[Henrietta]

He earned a scholarship to a university on his own merit, but once there white students assumed he was admitted due to his skin color.

And can you blame them? Most black students are admitted despite vastly inferior test scores and grades. It really does black students who got in on their own merit a horrible disservice; they will always labor under the perception that they are part of a "quota" and their professional advancement may in fact be hindered due to perceptions I talked about in my earlier post. It's very sad.

[LetsRok]

If anything, blacks have it easier. All a black student has to do is have a B average and slightly above average SAT scores and he will get a full scholarship to almost any of the top schools in the nation.

...where they fail out after their first semester and don't return because they did not learn enough in high school to succeed at the college level.

[Mind-numbed Robot]

We emphasize excellence. We emphasize studying. We emphasize education.

If you aren't careful your children will end up like Dr. Condaleeza Rice, Dr. Thomas Sowell, Dr. Walter Williams, Ward Connerly, et al. :-)

[Tired of Taxes]

But, Henrietta, although the existence of affirmative action programs promotes racist stereotypes, I don't think the programs themselves work the way so many people think they do. Race is only one qualifier for admission into a university. For example, maybe a person has lower SAT scores, but he/she gave a better interview, or wrote a compelling essay for the college application. And, remember, white women supposedly benefit from affirmative action, too, and other "groups" like Asian-Americans and Hispanics also qualify under AA programs. But - alas! - only African-Americans get stereotyped. IMHO, before we abolish AA programs, we should stop state and federal funding of schools altogether. Let people pay for their own educations and go to different schools, if they like.

[Rodney King]

...where they fail out after their first semester and don't return because they did not learn enough in high school to succeed at the college level.

Not anymore. Now they major in African-American studies, and everybody passes.

[Mind-numbed Robot]

....we should stop state and federal funding of schools altogether.

But that would severely restrict government control over admissions and eliminate AA. Oh, now I get it. :-)

[CatoRenasci]

I don't mean to be diffident, but I for one would not be prepared to alter standards for attitudes and behavior. Perhaps I, and others like me, are 'uptight' in your view, but we are entitled to our views and standards. As another poster put it, these aren't 'white' standards, they are the standards of civility and the behavior conducive to learning and polite interaction among men and women of good will.

I would not object if someone who had a different view of standards chose to set up alternative instititions, but neither would I be willing to accept them as equal.

I have always believed that the way to avoid racism in myself was to apply to all people the standards I believe in, not to make excuses for members of any group or assume they cannot fully participate in any way in the life of the mind and the great conversation of western civilization. In reading your posts, I have always had the sense that you take a similar view.