[Soliton]

I am all for our forces having the latest technology, but this article is obvious BS put out to prevent Chenny from canceling the F-22 project.

[Lou L]

Even if this simulation were true, it would demand highly-trained pilots, weapons systems, and communications. Which countries have all these?

[Whilom]

Those skeptical of the experiments say they're being used to justify the new Aim-9X high-off-boresight, short-range missile and its helmet-mounted cuing system, the F-22 as an air-superiority fighter and, possibly, the development of a new long-range air-to-air missile that could match the F-22 radar's ability to find targets at around 120 mi.

First, we discover a maneuver gap; second, we get the money; third, we undiscover the maneuver gap. Works every time.

[Charles Martel]

Sounds like the AIM-9x missile is the more crucial development program. Would the outcome in the simulator change if the F-15 pilot had missiles equivalent to the new Russian design? I think that change alone would deprive the Su-30 of its "edge" in executing that evasive maneuver.

[Poohbah]

The scenario in which the Su-30 "always" beats the F-15 involves the Sukhoi taking a shot with a BVR missile (like the AA-12 Adder) and then "turning into the clutter notch of the F-15's radar," the Air Force official said. Getting into the clutter notch where the Doppler radar is ineffective involves making a descending, right-angle turn to drop below the approaching F-15 while reducing the Su-30's relative forward speed close to zero. This is a 20-year-old air combat tactic, but the Russian fighter's maneuverability, ability to dump speed quickly and then rapidly regain acceleration allow it to execute the tactic with great effectiveness, observers said.

Here's the dog in the manger: the F-15C was obviously constrained to straight and level flight in order for this tactic to work. ANY change in velocity or direction that the Su-30MK driver did not prepare for would neutralize the tactic.

[ReveBM]

I think it's highly unlikely that the potential Chinese/North Korean/Iraqi/Iranian foes we meet in any Su-30MK will be well trained enough to use this maneuver. Provided we are not fighting Su-30MKs driven by Russian top guns, I think the F-15 still has a lot of shelf life left.

This is just an armchair outlook. Does my argument make any sense to people who actually know stuff about the F-15? Also, aren't our frontline forces flying models later than the F-15C (F-15E?), or does the "C" in F-15C just mean it launched from a carrier or something?

[green team 1999]

[fporretto]

Don't be too impressed by the verdict of a simulation. Simulations are usually based on the manufacturer's claims for his weapons platform. I know; I'm a simulations expert, and I've been in the military-engineering world for nearly twenty years. Some of the lies I've been asked to substantiate with a simulation would leave you gasping for breath.

Recall that the MIG-25, which was supposed to be the Soviet wonder weapon in the 70s, could not exceed Mach 2 without melting its engine. Little gotchas like that aren't usually factored into a simulation.

It's possible, even likely, that we could do much better than the F-15C today, but it's unwise to think we're in immediate danger of losing air superiority over any battlefield of current importance because of these simulations of the Sukhoi-30. The true test, as always, is combat.

Freedom, Wealth, and Peace,
Francis W. Porretto
Visit the Palace Of Reason: http://palaceofreason.com

[hchutch]

How would one go about acquiring an Su-30MK? I know some folks have brought MiGs back before. Slap it as an "Experimental" plane for FAA purposes, and make sure the cannon is non-functional, and you've got a pretty nice plane. Better than some dinky Cessna...

*looks down*

I'll stop drooling over the keyboard now...

[Young Werther]

"If the maneuver is done correctly." During my Air Force stint I spoke with many Viet Nam era pilots who trained with Iranian, Pakistani, and other Third World pilots who came to the US for their training. At that point many of the US pilots suggested to me that the mechanical abilities of these "camel jockies" were minimal.

In the case of piloting a jet fighter the phrase, "It's the pilot stupid" applies. Any Russian/Soviet equipment comes with the training which is dissmilar to that of the US. Just read "Eye of a Tiger" and there is no doubt that cultural differences can effect air tactics. In a dictatorship, (Iraq for example), top down directions stifles the junior officers ability to "make it up as you go along". That's why our allies, including the Saudis, were successful and the Iraq Air Force fled to Iran!

[GOP_1900AD]

For example....

[Straight Vermonter]

This report mentions that the Russian fighter is being exported to China and India. I wonder if the radar the article refers to is the export radar or the latest equipment our guys are using.

[AgentEcho]

Click on picture for additional info from CombatAircraft.com

[The KG9 Kid]

"... The Russian fighter then takes its second shot, this time with the IR missile, and accelerates out of danger.

"It works in the simulator every time," the Air Force official said."

I can fly the Concorde under the Golden Gate Bridge every single time in MS Flight Simulator 2001.

[csvset]

Sounds like a cool a/c. Too bad a preemptive strike on it's airfield would leave it a burned out wreck.

[Bush2000]

I am all for our forces having the latest technology, but this article is obvious BS put out to prevent Chenny from canceling the F-22 project.

These articles come up every time a DOD budget is under review. It's practically written by the DOD and defense contractors who want to preserve their expensive aircraft programs. The fact that so many people are falling for this BS is a sure sign that negativity works.