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To: Junior
If I ask: “Why I ought to be unselfish?’ and you reply ‘Because it’s good for society.’ I can then ask, ‘Why should I care what happens to society unless it happens to pay me personally?’ Is the answer, ‘Because one should not be selfish?’

Does one play football ‘in order to score goals?’ That is not the reason for the game, it is the end result.

C.S. Lewis paraphrased

Besides Junior, you are a Christian, surely you believe God put it in our hearts.

165 posted on 05/20/2002 5:18:18 PM PDT by Heartlander
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To: Heartlander
If I ask: “Why I ought to be unselfish?’ and you reply ‘Because it’s good for society.’ I can then ask, ‘Why should I care what happens to society unless it happens to pay me personally?’ Is the answer, ‘Because one should not be selfish?’

It is pragmatic to be honest and selfless. It is pragmatic to refrain from killing your neighbor. It is pragmatic to not burn down his house.

Next ridiculous argument?

170 posted on 05/20/2002 5:31:36 PM PDT by Gladwin
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To: Heartlander
The key is reputation. In a society (herd, pack) you interact with the same individuals not once but several times. So if you're too selfish they deal with you appropriately and you may even be shunned or expelled from your group. As a result you have more disadvantages than advantages from your behaviour.
Therefore it is self evident that a certain degree of altruism is necessary for a society to exist. It's an intrinsic property of such a system.
Children also have to learn this lesson. Being told by their parents how to behave isn't enough, a great deal they have to learn the hard way by interacting with others.
Of course a certain degree of selfishness is required or otherwise we wouldn't survive. The trick however, is to find a good balance. To comprehend this no god is required.

BTW why do you think certain behaviour is bad? Is it because your god says so or does he say it is bad because it is detrimental regardless of his opinion?
If it's the former case your god could have chosen the opposite and it would be an arbitrary decision. He could have decided that stealing is not wrong for instance.
On the other hand if he simply recognizes that certain things are wrong regardless of his opinion we can also arrive at the same conclusions without him. In this case he isn't really needed but he serves only as a Santa Claus for adults.

197 posted on 05/20/2002 6:11:44 PM PDT by BMCDA
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To: Heartlander
Does one play football ‘in order to score goals?’ That is not the reason for the game, it is the end result.

The end result for a human being is to survive long enough to ensure his genes get passed along. Working with a group increases the chances of this happening. Going one's own way (being selfish) stresses the group, reducing the group's chances of survival and consequently reducing the individual's chances of survival. Groups which enforce the survival of the group over the survival of the individual (either through law, religion or tradition, or simply through force -- though the latter can be counterproductive in the long run) increase their odds of survival versus groups that do not. In other words, morality among humans is a trait "selected for" because it promotes survival.

283 posted on 05/21/2002 2:25:48 AM PDT by Junior
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To: Heartlander
Besides Junior, you are a Christian, surely you believe God put it in our hearts.

Ah, but what mechanism did God use?

284 posted on 05/21/2002 2:26:46 AM PDT by Junior
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