Posted on 05/20/2002 12:53:27 PM PDT by rpage3
See source for details....
Can a square be perfectly round and still be a square?
Is time material though? How do you define what is material? Was there always "time"? What is "time" yadda yadda....
Great. Can God change his mind or not?
Look, you've basically got two choices here. One, you can defend gore3000's assertion that God's law is immutable, and thereby abandon any claim that God is omnipotent. Or, two, you can rescue God's omnipotence by admitting that God's law is not immutable, and that therefore gore3000 was wrong in his assertion. And if God's law can be changed by God, then the possibility exists that God could declare, say, murder to be kosher tomorrow. Whether or not we think it is likely or not, the possibility exists that God can do such a thing if He wishes. And then we either accept God's new law, or we do not. If we do not, then it seems to me that Junior was right, and morals exist apart from God somehow.
What a choice - agree with the evolutionist, or destroy one of the central tenets of Christianity. Talk about your rock-and-a-hard-place kind of thing. ;)
We (and "we" with no hint of sarcasm) should be a little careful here. If it is accepted that the Bible sometimes speaks in generalities and simplifications and allegory, then it has in no way been scientifically established that the the Genesis story is untrue. Science has yet to mathematically reconcile relativity and quantum mechanics. And the universe is filled with "dark matter, which is science's way of saying "We don't know what the heck is out there". We're not nearly so knowledgeable as "those who know" would have us believe.
The ability to err is a power?
There are many confusions in the premises. God is absolute being, truth, goodness and beauty. He is perfect –lacking nothing. Therefore He is a simple spiritual substance (having no parts).
Since He is perfect He cannot logically contradict Himself or do nonsensical things. Rather than being a deficiency or lack of perfection, this exemplifies His limitless power and perfection.
We who are limited, fallen creatures have within our power the ability to err, as your argument demonstrates.
I understand that that is your premise. And if you mean it in a normative sense, the question is, in light of the premise, what basis do you, an outsider to another society, have for condemning the morals or actions of that society? If the premise is true, your condemnation makes no sense. Yet you know immediately upon presentation to your mind that the systematic murder of millions of innocent people is an egregious evil, and your humanity and basic decency causes you to want to condemn it. If your moral intuition is valid, and some things really are wrong no matter what society says, then the premise is untrue.
Cordially
Truth is not decided by consensus. I invite you to read the Decl. of Independence. Life is a God-given right, not a govt. given right. It is unalienable. In the civil war, the South made this mistake. They placed "popular sovereignty" (people decide if slavery is right) ahead of the univeral right to liberty. And they were wrong! Just as you are wrong.
In small things certainly. But most societies prohibit things like adultery, murder and theft.
Or are you asserting that all morality is culturally determined? That there is no such thing as an eternal moral law?
If so, is your universal assertion regarding the nature of morality itself determined by society? If not, then you contradict yourself. If yes, then your assertion becomes merely another opinion shaped by society, and hence does not even rise to the level of a universal assertion.
Not at all. The ability to change one's mind and behave differently is a power. If God changes His own law, it's hardly a tacit admission that He was wrong previously. If the speed limit on the road to my workplace is 55 mph, and I usually drive 55 mph, but today I choose to drive 45 mph, it's just a simple change of behavior, not an admission that I was somehow wrong yesterday. Maybe God would change the law to fit changing circumstances. Maybe He would feel that some new law was appropriate to our state of development today.
That doesn't mean that He was wrong yesterday, merely that He's updated the regulations a bit. It's not a error or a contradiction on His part - indeed, if we accept that God is inerrant, then if He changes the law it must be the right thing for Him to do, by definition. And by definition, it must also be non-contradictory and not nonsensical.
We who are limited, fallen creatures have within our power the ability to err, as your argument demonstrates.
And yet it remains unrefuted. ;)
Creationists claim that the speed of light changes wildly, in order to fit the "science" in Genesis, so from that point of view I guess God does change things around whenever He wants. That's what miracles are all about. Besides, to say that God can't change His laws is to declare that God has limitations, which seems to be blasphemy.
As I move down the thread, I see you pretty much covered this in post 561. And in 578. Well, that's what happens when you have a lot of posts to catch up on. More in post 584. I'm really plowing an exhausted field. Well, consider this a placemarker.
And yet you are of the opinion that God created everything ex nihilo. Go figure...
Yes. As a matter of fact He does so in Genesis in the Flood story and in his decision to destroy Sodom and Gemorrah (Abraham bargained God down on that one).
God can do no wrong because he is God, and because he is God he can do no wrong. Because he is God he can not contradict himself, and he cannot contradict himself because he is God. Circular reasoning........circular reasoning....i'm getting dizzy
How many dimensions (in the mathematical sense) are we allowed to work in? {;^)>
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