Posted on 05/20/2002 12:53:27 PM PDT by rpage3
See source for details....
Having the wake yet?
"What is truth?"
Pontius Pilate
Morality is a form of cooperation, but it evolved to help individual groups of humans. It can be applied between groups of humans, but that is not required.
For example, codebreaker believes that only creationists are going to heaven. In fact, he revels in his fantasy of Gould burning in hell. Yet, he would be horrified by the idea of himself burning in hell, with his skin blistering and flesh melting for all time. He can do this because he only applies his morality to his group of people, the creationists. Anything is ok for anyone else. This is exactly what Genghis or Hitler did. Morality, in humans, only seems to apply to the group that you are in.
Is this good, or just? No. It is just true.
I'm tempted to ask, "what truth?", but instead I will simply ask if you are presenting your claim of "society says" morality as descriptive or alternatively, as normative? Morality itself involves notions of "ought" and "should", not merely with what "is", in a descriptive sense.
There are numerous problems with understanding normative morality as a "society says" morality. For example, it becomes impossible to judge or critize another society, if there is no moral law above society. Then you've got the problem of which "society" to obey, the population at large, or just the people with the power to rule? If people have a moral obligation to obey whatever their society presently says to do, then for example, Germans in the Nazi era would have had at that time a moral obligation to participate in the murder of innocent people. There could never be any such thing as an immoral law. If courts and laws define what is moral, then neither laws nor governments could ever be immoral, even in principle, which renders incoherent the concept of moral reformation. Moral improvement under such a philosophy actually becomes unethical, an obvious absurdity.
Cordially,
What does this have to do with morality?
I think it is a legitimate question. According to Christian doctrine you are going to spend eternity in heaven if you were a good guy. But what are you doing there all this time so you're not feeling bored?
Gould's theory of punctuated equilibrium is an elaboration, refinement on Darwin's theory. I like how Michael Shermer put it "[Punctuated Equilibrium] no more proves Darwin wrong than Einsteinian relativity proves Newton wrong."
Speaks volumes about the person saying it..
Some people NEED to believe. --Some don't.
If you really had an inquiring mind, this truth would be self evident.
389 posted by tpaine
Obviously, you don't know a rhetorical question when you see one,
Obviously, you got an unrefutable answer to your question, so now you claim it was 'rhetorical'. Petty dissembling.
but coming from someone who identifies himself with a famous God-hater, I am not surprised.
Tom Paine didn't hate the idea of god, or the men that believed in one.
He exposed hypocrites, exactly like you.
Hey, if you want to tar yourself as having an un-inquiring mind, be my guest.
Amusing concept, - "I'm a dolt, and proud of it!"
You guys seem to believe that your beliefs alter reality. --- I don't. -- 2+2 = 4, regardless of what I personally believe.
428 posted on 5/21/02 10:10 AM Pacific by JediGirl
Doesn't knowledge--science create LAW...'morality'?
That is still ad hoc. How is the "survival" of the group determined? How is the group "propagated"?
How long have you been dead---heartbroken?
And anyone familiar with the English language can clearly see that my question to catholics was rhetorical....except you.
And the word is not "unrefutable" but "irrefutable." You are all bluff but no substance.
Is that how you perceive the world? Sad. Clearly, "might makes right" does not work because it makes no distinction between power and goodness. Do you make a distinction between the two?
Everything good to my heart's content.
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