Famed Harvard Biologist Gould Dies

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&ncid=716&e=2&u=/ap/20020520/ap_on_re_us/obit_gould ^ | 5/20/02 | yahoo

[rpage3]

See source for details....

[codebreaker]

Is that like 'the sins of the father shall be visited upon the son?'

[TigerTale]

Evolutionists are Christ-deniers

So C.S. Lewis was a Christ-denier? You presume too much.

[AndrewC]

? If you understand the act to be immoral even if God declares it to be right, is this not indicative that morals exist apart from God?

Then you are declaring God is immoral. That is not a Christian concept.

[codebreaker]

Goulds intolerance is defined by his questioning tactics in his classrooms for pressing him on proving evolution theory is law.

Of course, Gould as a true scientist could not make such a claim so he chose to attempt to humiliate those who would challenge him. (sometimes successfully, sometimes not)

[AndrewC]

what moral is being instructed?

Do not hate God.

[jlogajan]

Murder is only wrong because society says it is wrong.

Actually, this is incorrect. That would be a "socialistic" view point. The individual has a sovereign interest in his own survival, so he doesn't need society's instruction as to whether he has a right to defend himself. He can, in fact, figure that out from introspection alone.

Morality tells us how we may interact. By first principles we always retain the right of self-defense. We can always adjudge an unprovoked assault on ourselves as "wrong" or "immoral". Whether society agrees or not is irrelevant.

Yes, society can empower or align with natural rights, such as self-defense, but it can't simply whim them out of existance.

[exmarine]

A buddhist atheist? hahaha. Well, this would certainly be a strange creature...buddhists are reincarnationists - and this concept requires "life after death" - a concept that orthodox (may I use that word, hehe) atheists reject outright in my experience. I have spoken and debated many atheists and almost all of them are contemptuous of ANY religion - but ESPECIALLY Christianity.

[proud to be breathing]

Thank you for reprinting that, I found that to be a very interesting essay. Gould was a wonderful writer.

[exmarine]

Natural rights? What is their origin?

[Junior]

Atheist means "without god." It has nothing to do with the afterlife or with religion in general.

[exmarine]

If C.S. Lewis was a theistic evolutionist, he was wrong. Period. They two are incompatible and this can be shown to be true with scripture itself. For example, Jesus Christ said and I quote: "In the beginning, God made them male and female." [Mk 10:6] Would one of you Christian evolutionists like to parse that verse for me and tell me how evolution can be read into it?

[jlogajan]

Natural rights? What is their origin?

Nature. Self-defense is a natural right -- it is an aspect of nature that an entity with the power to do so will tend to defend itself. There is no need to consult a mythical authority, no need for a tablet of stone detailing the right of self-defense to be handed down from on high, no need to vote about it, no need to consult about it. Indeed, there is no need to convince your attacker that you have the right of self-defense. You simply assert it as needed.

[Junior]

No one is declaring God immoral. Morals exist external to God, as they exist external to you or I -- does this make you or I immoral? Immorality is in one's actions, be one either man or God.

[jlogajan]

Would one of you Christian evolutionists like to parse that verse for me and tell me how evolution can be read into it?

Well, I know you think Catholics are all damned to hell anyway, but it is the official Catholic Church position that Christianity is NOT incompatible with evolution.

[Junior]

Do not hate God.

Suppose someone simply feels indifferent toward Him?

[exmarine]

Then, perhaps you would like to parse Jesus' words for me. I don't care what catholics believe, I care what the Bible says. I'm waiting...

[codebreaker]

Indifference is still not good enough, one must ask for the Lords forgivness and ask him or her into their life.

Apathy will still bring one the same result as Gould if he did not come to his senses at the end.

[exmarine]

it is the official Catholic Church position that Christianity is NOT incompatible with evolution.

..but since you brought it up, let's shed a little light on the catholic position...

First, it's no secret that evolution is taught in almost all catholic schools, yet the say the bible is their authority (along with church tradition). Unfortunately, the bible and evolution are mutually exclusive and here's why (logic is a wonderful thing!):

1. IF evolution is true, then Genesis must be allegorical;

2. If Adam and Eve are allegories, then they were not real people;

3. IF they were not real people, then they could not have sonned against God;

4. If they did not sin against God, then there is no original sin;

5. If there is no original sin, then there is no sin period.

6. If there is no sin, there is no need for a Savior;

7. If there is no need for a Savior, then Jesus Christ and His atonement are also no necessary;

8. If there is no sin and no need for Christ, why do catholics go to confession every Sunday?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[Nataku X]

You probably wanted to try Matthew 24:39. That's harder to overcome for evolutionists. That one is easy enough for an old-earch Creationist or theistic evolutionist to answer...

Humans have always been male and female, haven't they?

Besides, even from a literal reading of Genesis, God did make asexual organisms before man. Adam & Eve were the last to be made...

[AndrewC]

Immorality is in one's actions, be one either man or God.

There, you did it again! You called God immoral.