The Folly of Hybrid Electric Vehicles

AOL, U. S. Government | 05/14/02 | HMV

[Hillary'sMoralVoid]

AOL Proclaims "HEVs are Hot"! Unfortunately, the treatment of the subject matter is so superficial that it ignores facts that AOL even provides links to. Here is a quote from a government publication: "Although a few production HEVs with advanced batteries have been introduced in the market, no current battery technology has demonstrated an economical, acceptable combination of power, energy efficiency, and life cycle for high-volume production vehicles."

The truth is, these are not economical, safe or environmentally sound vehicles. First, the economical aspect. If the quote in the previous paragraph doesn't convince you, the fact that the AOL FAQs on HEVs document that replacement batteries can cost between $3000 and $8000 ought to get your attention. These batteries are good for 80,000 to 100,000 miles, but their life varies based on the type of driving patterns and habits.

The AOL articles tout the high mileage that the hybrid vehicles get. What they don't tell you is that these are sub-compact cars. A fully gasoline-fueled version of the Toyota Prius, for example, could be expected to get comparable gas mileage with less weight and complexity than an HEV, and with more trunk space. The thousands of dollars you pay for a new battery effectively doubles the cost per mile. You do, however, get good GAS mileage with the HEV, just not good battery mileage!!!

In an increasingly graying population, comfort is winning out over fuel efficiency. With comfort goes size. The average size of vehicles is getting larger every year, and unless we can reverse the aging process, people will continue to want roomy, comfortable cars and SUVs.

This does not bode well for the HEVs, most of which are in the subcompact category. In collisions, larger vehicles almost always win, smaller vehicles invariably lose. No matter how many safety features are built into a subcompact car, you cannot compensate for the laws of physics. You simply are more prone to die or suffer serious injuries in today's HEVs.

Accidents pose another risk. Exploding batteries, containing hazardous components like mercury, lithium, and lead, pose serious cleanup challenges. Further, according to the U. S. Government, most new battery designs are not yet fully recycleable, meaning that discharged batteries will have to be stored and protected until a recycling strategy has matured. Its like nuclear waste dump II.

There are many other factors to consider, not the least of which is technical complexity. The biggest issue is the codependency of the two engines. The gasoline engine must provide the power generating capability that the electric motor needs, the electric motor must provide the torque that the gasoline engine lacks. If either system fails or is degraded, performance will suffer dramatically, and render the auto either inoperable or dangerously underpowered.

A final factor to consider is the simple mass in the form of a battery that is hauled around with little value added. As we've discussed previously, a gas-powered Toyota Prius could be expected to get comparable gas mileage as its HEV counterpart, particularily if the same level of research and development is utilized in the design. What we have created is vehicle that is nothing more than a battery-hauler, in which the battery only contributes to the cost and inefficiency of the vehicle.

AOL is pursuing its own agenda here, and it is not one that is either practical or smart.

[John Jamieson]

If you make the hydrogen from water on board, you can run the exhaust backinto the intake and start over!

We call that a "self eating watermelon" in NASA.

[daviddennis]

You are, of course, both right. I had the Echo page open when I wrote that, so in sheer absent-mindedness I typed the name of the wrong car!

In Europe, where they take gas mileage a great deal more seriously than they do here, diesel cars sell very well. CAR magazine (UK) points out that the diesel VW Golf is a superior car to the Prius in every respect, and matches it in fuel economy.

That certainly makes the hybrid car look pointless.

D

[Wurlitzer]

"It's a pity. The Shinkansen in Japan is quite convenient"

Agreed but you cannot compare mass transit in Japan with people that know how to behave themselves with mass transit in the USA with "Diversity" challenged people who will piss, write on walls, vomit, threaten you with weapons etc..

That WAS why air travel WAS nice for a while. People dressed well. They knew how to behave. The flight crews treated you like a customer not baggage.

[StriperSniper]

The only car I really enjoyed driving was my tire screeching, fishtailing, gas sucking '67 Mustang convertable.

I can't say only car, but the one I enjoyed the most was my '77 Datsun 280Z (not the Buck Rodgers looking ZX). It had manual everything, steering, transmition, brakes, windows, and an AM radio. At 180,000 miles there was basically no clutch left, but that didn't matter, the gears meshed perfectly without it once you got used to the ratios. It was the difference between driving and going along for the ride.

[Willie Green]

Rail transport for citizens only succeeds or breaks even if the population density is high enough AND the demand for travel from A to B is sufficient to cover cost. There are perhaps, PERHAPS, 5 or 6 areas in the nation that meet both criteria.
The Interstate Highway System as an argument FOR your delusions? A good idea and necessary when proposed...almost 50 years ago, but now just another "forever" pork-barrel.

By your own admission, we are reaching the point of diminishing returns on the Interstate Highway System, and have need for mass-transportation systems to serve our nation's most densely populated regions and urban areas. However, your objections reflect extremely short-term vision and lack consideration of our nation's projected population growth and energy consumption.

U.S. Petroleum & Crude Oil Overview
(thousand barrels per day)

	1960	1965	1970	1975	1980	1985	1990	1995	2000
U.S. Crude Oil Production	7,035	7,804	9,637	8,375	8,597	8,971	7,355	6,560	5,834
U.S. Petroleum Imports	1,815	2,468	3,419	6,056	6,909	5,067	8,018	8,835	11,093
Total	8,850	10,272	13,056	14,431	15,506	14,038	15,373	15,395	16,927
Imports as % of Total	20.5	24.0	26.2	42.0	44.6	36.1	52.2	57.4	65.5

As our nation continues to grow, our energy consumption, and continued dependence on imported oil also increases. The only energy alternatives capable of supplying the massive quantities necessary to alleviate this long term trend are nuclear and clean-coal electric power generation. On the consumption side, electricly powered mass-transportation would shift usage away from petroleum as well.

Such infrastructure projects are expensive and require time to build. They also provide benefits for many decades. Pursuit of such a solution requires mature, long-term vision, not whiney myopia. Now is the time to begin construction of such systems, BEFORE yet another Oil Crisis hits our nation.

[John Jamieson]

Ford also makes several high mileage versions of the Focus that are NOT yet sold in the US, including a diesel.

[2Trievers]

I ran across this pic ... do you like? &;-)

[Inge_CAV]

Yes, I like it very much and here is the real thing, a Peterbilt, for sale now.

.

[altair]

Agreed but you cannot compare mass transit in Japan with people that know how to behave themselves with mass transit in the USA with "Diversity" challenged people who will piss, write on walls, vomit

You obviously have never been in a Tokyo train station on a Friday night. :-)

The flight crews treated you like a customer not baggage.

The Shinkansen crews are refreshingly polite. They even bow when entering and exiting a car.

[Inge_CAV]

Already have a truck, just need a trailer like this. Not searching to hard though, afraid that I will find one. : )

.

[2Trievers]

It's wonderful!

OTOH, you have more horsepower than any 50 guys I know put together! Why more? LOL &;-)

[2Trievers]

What do you need THAT for? ROFLOL &;-)

[Balding_Eagle]

Sorry Willie, the world is awash in oil.

[Inge_CAV]

"What do you need THAT for?"

For a team of large draft horses, their harness, feed, hay, blankets and whatever they are to be hitched too can fit in the back.

A dually and gooseneck horse trailer is woefully inadequate for such a load.

[mamelukesabre]

a 69 chrysler 300 eh?

At one time I had a '71 Fury two door with a 440, holley double pumper, edelbrock manifold, competition cam, trw pistons, etc, etc. That was a great car. When you say 140MPH, that isn't really an exaggeration. Mine would do about 135MPH. Most people don't realize how fast those old boats would go if they had the proper gearing and a big block. Mine had 2.70 gears in the rear end and would top 50MPH in first gear. That old boat once totaled an MG and didn't so much as scratch the paint, or crack a headlight. I'd rather not discuss it's fuel economy though.

As for economy, however, You can't beat a used minitruck. You can pick one up for under 2 grand and it will run forever. You can drive it for 5 years and then sell it for what you paid for it, sometimes even more. Insurance is peanuts. Fuel economy could be a little better, but the overall economy still beats 99% of the vehicles out there.

The only thing that beats my old minitruck for economy is my old honda motorcycle. $1500 purchase price, 52MPG and 70 bucks/year for insurance. If I sold it today, it would go for about the same as what I paid for it over 5 years ago.

[2Trievers]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh ... I get it now ... you have more vehicles than you need ... but not as many as you want! &;-)

[mamelukesabre]

Yeah, I remember those. The problem with them was that they were only two-seaters. Insurance companies charge extra for two seaters because according to them, all two seaters are high performance sports cars. So whatever you saved in fuel mileage, you lost in insurance premiums. That's why honda quit making that model.

[Rebelbase]

Its lunacy to put high speed rail corridors in the South. Tractors don't move fast enough to get off the tracks. I mean that with all seriousness.

[Rebelbase]

I stepped out in front of a hybrid going the the street last weekend. The damm thing was so quiet I never heard it coming.