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To: Prodigal Son
I have been trying to tie all this into the end times predicted in the bible and unless we annihlate? the muslims I cant see the whole world marching against Israel unless we are talking about quite some time from now?
158 posted on 11/19/2002 5:43:41 AM PST by winodog
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To: winodog
I'm not really up on the "end times prophecy". Mostly just what I recall from Bible study in my youth. I know there seems to be an entire industry built around it nowadays in the States.

I had to stop and think what I had in my head back in May when I wrote that... I think some of what I was pointing at is the way the societies in Western Culture have for decades now (particularly since WWII) had as a stated goal to become more liberal, more 'tolerant'. This was fed by the guilt people felt stemming from the Holocaust. People wanted to make sure a minority would no longer be demonized. This carried over naturally in the Civil Rights Movement and this attitude of "zero tolerance" for intolerance is very visible today.

What this means, however, is we are faced in a situation today where we have been taught to be tolerant of those who have as a stated goal the complete overthrow of our way of life and thinking. The Muslims divide the world into the House of War and the House of Peace. We, infidels, are not in the good half of this bargain. Yet our entire cultural apparatus nowadays is aimed at "inclusiveness"- in effect, welcoming our enemies with open arms.

To hate another people, or to brand them as evil is effectively taboo in much of the Western World today. The Europeans actually swoon with nausea at the mere thought of such a thing (seemingly). There is no unified front (from our culture) against our common enemy. Even the USA cannot properly name the enemy or the situation- instead we must cloak our mission behind the vague moniker "War on Terror".

I don't think the Muslim world will overthrow us- I really don't. The point I was trying to make is the situation is very grim and it has reached a head now. The liberals like to refer to the spiral/cycle/circle of violence. It is apt in this situation. Every action now will lead to the next. The things we have to do to protect ourselves will further inflame fundie jihadis. Their retaliation will provoke us to further protect ourselves etc etc. It can't be stopped now and in a way it was always inevitable IMHO.

But if the USA doesn't stand firm- there is no other mechanism to protect against the spread of radical Islam throughout our culture because the liberals have been steadily at work against Christianity for years and years. There would have been a time when if all else failed, the Church would've stepped up and taken on this foe. This is what the Crusades were. But the Church has been disconnected from the process in today's Western Culture. Young people don't look to it for answers and in many cases you have young people actually identifying more with the religion of our enemy than with the traditional religion of our own culture.

The only State in the World that still has all the necessary ingrediants to fight Islam is Israel- again, in my opinion. They have the will to fight. They have a cultural impetus to fight- meaning they feel like they have an ancient mandate from God to be in Israel and to keep it for the Jews and they are a strongly religious society, even if they are modern. They are not squeamish, they know who their enemy is and are not afraid to say so. Even if the political apparatus should fail them their very culture is firmly embedded in their religion and their belief system will give them the strength to oppose the jihadis.

Like I said- I don't think the US would ever be conquered by the Muslims. But Europe? Sure. It's happening before our eyes. Australia? They have the same elements of "tolerance at any cost" within their society that is working against the Euros. South America is staunchly Catholic, but then they're not a serious military threat either. The Muslims have a firm hold on Asia, a spreading control of Africa. If America could be militarily defeated or crippled to the point it was no longer interested in the fate of Israel and the Middle East- the situation I described would be a de facto reality. The entire world of Islam against Israel and American dominance receding or at least an America that had to totally disconnect from its traditional allies (Europe, Australia).

The strength I attribute to Israel is also the strength of our enemy to by the way. Their core morality, their core value system is religious and is deeply entwined in their political process. They feel that God has commanded them to spread his will throughout the entire world. Even if they have a Shah of Iran who is western friendly, they have religious leaders who pick up the ball and lead the masses in the direction of their perceived values- which of course are interpreted to be the direct will of God.

In essence, this is a medieval battle on a 21st century battlefield. My hope for my fellow man is that we will find the strength to see the fight to the finish.

159 posted on 11/19/2002 2:14:59 PM PST by Prodigal Son
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