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To: Alan Chapman
Oh, I see ... how could I have been sufferring through so many decades of erronious assumptions ? FDR was a Republicqan, the USA was NOT Russia's ally, during WW II, Truman was a REPUBLICAN, so was JFK, LBJ, Carter, and Clinton. The House and Senate, have had Republican majorities, since forever , and the SCOTUS has also been solidly Conservative, for the past 50 years. Yes, yes, Alan, now I understand, of course you are right, and it's all the fault of those dreadful Republicans, that the USA is in the mess it's now in. Only the blessed , kind, brilliant Libertarians can save this benighted nation. (/sarcasm )

Congrats, you twist / rewrite historical facts, better than most professional spinners !

No, I didn't change what I wrote, from post to post. Yes, everyone can see what's what. LOL

Bellflower, Ca. is a MAJOR city ? Not if one considers N.Y., Chicago, L.A., Atlanta, and Boston to be MAJOR cities. Heck, Buffalo, Pittburgh, and New Orleans are more " major " , than Bellflower is. I've never even heard of Bellflower and I think that it is fairly safe to say, that the vast majority of people, in this country, have NEVER heard of it either.

Is making a government smaller, the ONLY prerequisite , of good stewardship ? Hmmmmmmm ... Rudy was a moderate / Liberal GOPER ; however, he lowered taxes, made N.Y.C. safer and cleaner ( vastly improved the quality of life) , got Times Square cleaned up, increased the tax base ( made a much more favorabe climate, so that businesses stopped leaving / came into N.Y.C. ) , increased tourism ( see quality of life , as well as lowered crime ),and got porn, prostitues , and gang activities out of many areas of the city. Gee, that all sounds marvelous to me. Yet, to you, that apparently would count for little to nothing.

You have blinders on. Libertarians, here, continuously claim that only they have principles / vote with principles intact. When there are MAJOR differences, between what a party and its candidate stand for, and what the voter believes in, that isn't a principled vote ! Oh, but you don't see that as hypocritical. We disagree. If a party's platform calls for such things as neutrality on abortion ( which is the same as pro-abortion ) , children's right to vote , children's rights, takes a pro stance on pornography, prostitution, and anything else I don't agree with, but is for a few things , with which I do agree, that IS unprincipled and hypocritical. That is precisely, what so many FR Libertarians are claiming as " principled "; it isn't !

Libertarianism isn't workable ; it's UTOPIAN and not what this country was founded in, no matter what you say / think / post . Political purists , are political naifs, who don't see a 1/2 filled glass as either 1/2 full or 1/2 empty ; they see an EMPTY glass. That's just what they are forever going to get ... N-O-T-H-I-N-G !

320 posted on 05/14/2002 8:55:02 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: nopardons
All Libertarians want is a small government. You say it is UTOPIAN as though Karl Marx invented the Libertarian Party. Don't you see the obvious dichotomy of concept that you, personally assert? Probably not, as you believe in "GREAT WHITE FATHER THAT SPEAK WITH FORK TONGUE!"
322 posted on 05/14/2002 9:02:50 PM PDT by Buckeroo
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To: nopardons
...the SCOTUS has also been solidly Conservative, for the past 50 years.

The SCOTUS has interpreted the Constitution into meaninglessness at every opportunity. As a result the federal government now has broad and sweeping police powers. Federal law enforcement can essentially do anything they want with impunity and often do. Wether or not the SCOTUS is Conservative is really irrelevant. What's important is how they rule.

No, I didn't change what I wrote, from post to post. Yes, everyone can see what's what.

You certainly did. In post #251 you stated:

"In 30 plus years, the LP has actually LOST voters and supporters."

I responded with facts to prove your assertion false. Then in post #315 you responded with:

"I said PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE for the last three cycles, and how many votes they got...and you're arguing about the number of votes, for ALL LP candidates, for the 2000 election."

In post #303 you stated:

"If, as many FR Libertraians claim, they don't agree with many LP platform stances, but then say that they are voting for the Libertarian " on proncile ", that IS hypocritic ; the candidate doesn't share their oh so vaunted principles at all."

In post #311 I asked two questions. First, the fact that many Libertarians criticize the LP platform and vote LP candidates makes them hypocritical how? Second, I asked you how were you able to determine that the candidates don't share their principles at all to which you replied:

"it is safe to say ( and more factual ! ) , to say that Libertarians, who supposedly vote their " principles " , in voting for a candidate / party patform, that they don't agree with , on many, many issues , are hypocrites and unprincipled."

You didn't answer my questions but instead attempted to obfuscate the matter by rephrasing something you said earlier and pretending the initial statement was never made.

Bellflower, Ca. is a MAJOR city ? Not if one considers N.Y., Chicago, L.A., Atlanta, and Boston to be MAJOR cities. Heck, Buffalo, Pittburgh, and New Orleans are more " major " , than Bellflower is. I've never even heard of Bellflower and I think that it is fairly safe to say, that the vast majority of people, in this country, have NEVER heard of it either.

You challenged me to name at least one Libertarian mayor of a major city. I did. Sorry you didn't like my answer. Too bad. He repealed a utility tax while in office for all property owners in the city and I'm sure they all appreciated it.

Is making a government smaller, the ONLY prerequisite...

No. Preventing it from expanding further is another.

All the accomplishments you listed by Rudy Guliani are fantastic. I'm glad he did those things. However, New York still enjoys some of the strictest gun control in the country, one of the highest tax burdens, and a massive state budget. Republican governor Pataki signed additional gun control into law in 2000.

...takes a pro stance on pornography, prostitution, and anything else I don't agree with...

The party does not take a "pro" stance on these issues and to the best of my knowledge I've never met a Libertarian who has either. It's one thing to oppose criminalization of something and another to be in favor of it. I don't think that failing to brush one's teeth should be a crime under the law. That doesn't mean I favor not brushing one's teeth.

Libertarianism isn't workable ; it's UTOPIAN...

Ah, but your political worldview ISN'T utopian. I see. I'm curious about something. If what Republicans enact in Congress and elsewhere is workable how come it's still not working? How come every year they need new laws, new programs, and new spending?

...and not what this country was founded in...

I'm sure that the government we have now was exactly the kind of government the founders intended. In either case it's certainly the kind of government we deserve.

325 posted on 05/14/2002 9:55:09 PM PDT by Alan Chapman
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To: nopardons
Libertarians are good to work with on a grass-roots level. I met a few when our conservative Republican state senator came to speak and take questions one night. I don't preach that they are throwing their votes away there, or on this board for that matter.

Hell, I voted for Ron Paul in '88, but I eventually learned that the sensible thing to do is vote third-party only in races where your candidate has run a good campaign with some backing. Save your throwaway votes for the dogcatcher's race.

360 posted on 05/16/2002 7:31:43 PM PDT by TN Republican
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