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Ghoulish Media Fantasy: Hillary's Death Could Give Bill Third Term
Newsmax ^ | 5/7/02 | Carl Limbacher

Posted on 05/07/2002 6:57:41 AM PDT by Lucky2

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To: Poohbah
Worth a try!
121 posted on 05/10/2002 2:41:27 PM PDT by angkor
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To: angkor
In the meantime, please post the relevant remarks.

The Supreme Court will, in the absence of other relevant argument, read the amendment and apply the plain text.

What I find astonshing about this is how this gossip columnist blithely assumed that Hillary would suddenly turn up at Fort Marcy Park or something after leading a Hilly & Billy ticket to the White House...that is one SICK assumption.

122 posted on 05/10/2002 2:44:59 PM PDT by Poohbah
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To: Poohbah
Why not begin our lesson here:

Excerpt from Thomas Jefferson's letter to James Madison

Paris
20 December 1787

...I like much the general idea of framing a government which should go on of itself peaceably, without needing continual recurrence to the state legislatures. I like the organization of the government into Legislative, Judiciary and Executive. I like the power given the Legislature to levy taxes.... I am captivated by the compromise of the opposite claims of the great and little states, of the latter to equal, and the former to proportional influence. I am much pleased too with the substitution of the method of voting by persons, instead of that of voting by states; and I like the negative given to the Executive with a third of either house, though I should have liked it better had the Judiciary been associated for that purpose, or invested with a similar and separate power. There are other good things of less moment.

I will now add what I do not like. First the omission of a bill of rights providing clearly and without the aid of sophisms for freedom of religion, freedom of the press, protection against standing armies, restriction against monopolies, the eternal and unremitting force of the habeas corpus laws, and trials by jury in all matters of fact triable by the laws of the land.... Let me add that a bill of rights is what the people are entitled to against every government on earth, general or particular, and what no just government should refuse, or rest on inference.

The second feature I dislike, and greatly dislike, is that abandonment in every instance of the necessity of rotation in office, and most particularly in the case of the President. Experience concurs with reason in concluding that the first magistrate will always be re-elected if the constitution permits it. He is then an officer for life.... If once elected, and at a second or third election outvoted by one or two votes, he will pretend false votes, foul play hold possession of the reins of government, be supported by the states voting for him, especially if they are the central ones.... An incapacity to be elected a second term would have been the only effectual preventative. The power of removing him every fourth year by the vote of the people is a power which will not be exercised....

I have thus told you freely what I like and dislike: merely as a matter of curiosity for I know your own judgment has been formed on all these points after having heard every thing which could be urged on them. I own I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive.... After all, it is my principle that the will of the Majority should always prevail. If they approve the proposed Convention in all it's (sic.) parts, I shall concur in it chearfully (sic.), in hopes that they will amend it whenever they shall find it work [sic.] wrong.

I think our governments will remain virtuous for many centuries; as long as they are chiefly agricultural; and this will be as long as there shall be vacant lands in any part of America. When they get piled upon one another as in Europe. Above all things I hope the education of the common people will be attended to; convinced that on their good sense we may rely with the most security for the preservation of a due degree of liberty. I have tried you by this time with my disquisitions and will therefore only add assurances of the sincerity of those sentiments of esteem and attachment with which I am Dear Sir your affectionate friend and servant....

From Jefferson, Thomas. The Portable Thomas Jefferson. Edited by Merrill D. Peterson. New York: Penguin Books, 1975.

123 posted on 05/10/2002 3:08:11 PM PDT by angkor
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To: Lucky2
I have mixed emotions.
124 posted on 05/10/2002 3:10:19 PM PDT by Saundra Duffy
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To: Poohbah
The Supreme Court will, in the absence of other relevant argument, read the amendment and apply the plain text.

I'm sorry to inform you that there is a wealth of "relevant material," and things will go precisely the opposite of your intended "plain text" deciphering.

Sorry I don't have the 1947 CR at hand, I'm sure you'd love to argue every miniscule point made by members of that congressional body.

Their intent was a two-term limitation on all presidents. Period.

And that's the way the USSC will intepret the 22nd. No ifs, ands, or buts.

125 posted on 05/10/2002 3:12:09 PM PDT by angkor
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To: angkor
However, Jefferson does acknowledge that there are no term limits on the Presidency.

That may have been his wish, but it didn't happen that way.

The key will be if the debate on the 22nd Amendment--the one that says no one shall be elected President--actually encompassed a formerly elected President being appointed President, and the backers stating that such was their intent.

If it does, then Clinton's task will be much harder.

However, merely pounding the table and saying that such IS the case is not going to convince the Supremes. They will want to see real evidence.

126 posted on 05/10/2002 3:33:09 PM PDT by Poohbah
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To: Poohbah
However, merely pounding the table and saying that such IS the case is not going to convince the Supremes. They will want to see real evidence.

That I do not presently have access to the 1947 Congressional Record - or the transcripts of the 1st Congressional Convention - does not represent "pounding on the table."

Of course anyone arguing before the USSC will have the CR, and the little I've discovered from the contemporary record doesn't just indicate, but makes certain, that the intent of the 22nd was to end 150 years of ambiguity and to create a two-year limit on the office of the Presidency.

All you've presented so far is linguistic parsing, and it is most unconvincing. It's naive to the working of the USSC at best, and Clintonian at worst.

127 posted on 05/10/2002 3:45:32 PM PDT by angkor
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To: Poohbah
However, Jefferson does acknowledge that there are no term limits on the Presidency.

Certainly. He acknowledges that as "a feature I greatly dislike."

And as a feature that both he and George Washington protested through the action of refusing third terms.

If it does, then Clinton's task will be much harder.

No, it will be impossible. Bill Clinton will have done us the noble service of proving that the office of the Vice-president cannot be used to advance an unconstitutional desire to surmount the 22nd Amendment.

As I've said, I hope he gives it a shot, because the certain outcome (that a former present cannot run again as VP) will further damage his "legacy" and at the same time strengthen the rule of law.

128 posted on 05/10/2002 3:52:42 PM PDT by angkor
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To: Iota; angkor
> it doesn't bother you that he might exercise the powers of the Presidency through a proxy? Only if he actually has the title of "President of the United States"?

Any President who allowed another to exercise the powers of the Presidency would be in violation of the oath of office. “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States..."

129 posted on 05/10/2002 11:55:47 PM PDT by Wallaby
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To: Wallaby; Askel5
Pssst.

I miss Coyote.

130 posted on 05/11/2002 12:03:06 AM PDT by nunya bidness
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To: Wallaby
I was responding to the word "exercise," not the word "execute."
131 posted on 05/11/2002 10:57:13 AM PDT by angkor
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To: angkor
I was responding to Iota's response to you. I do not think that having a proxy is a constitutionally permissible end-run around the 22nd Amendment.
132 posted on 05/11/2002 11:45:48 AM PDT by Wallaby
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