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To: gohabsgo
taking Communion and drinking wine symbolic of the blood of Christ

Mallon needs a reeducation in his faith. The wine is not symbolic of the blood of Christ. Roman Catholics believe in the real presence of the body and blood of Christ, as confirmed by the words of Christ in Scripture, in the consecrated host and wine; transubstantiation.

4 posted on 05/06/2002 6:51:34 AM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
The bit about John Kennedy in the article is a little off. Catholics had already "proved" themselves, ironically enough, in heroics of World War II and in the subsequent Cold War, including some as leading "conservatives." Whatever the artistic merits, some Catholic actors had also become well-known as normal Americans to millions of other Americans through the old Hollywood films of the 1940s and 1950s. Kennedy's political aspirations were fufilled late in a long social process in American culture. One might might argue that Kennedy was successful politically (in the short term) largely due to being merely nominally Catholic and NOT intellectually, culturally, and spiritually so. Now, 35+ years after "the spirit of Vatican II," it's apparent that many Americans still do not understand the Church or Catholicism, including some leading clerics. The Church which was really successful in American society was that of the 1940s and 1950s, not the one since Vatican II. Whether that is due entirely to internal convulsions or other external influences attributable in part to radical changes in secular American culture generally can be debated.

It is arguable that what is left of authentic Catholicism and orthodox tradition is living off of the near-spent legacy of the pre-Vatican II Church. That includes progressive liberal enterprises like those at Georgetown University or of Richard McBrien of Notre Dame, both institutions which rose to success and prominence BEFORE Vatican II and the 1960s. Take away the gothic buildings and the libraries built from the entirely pre-Vatican II coins of Irish laborers and little-old-ladies' pensions, and you'd just have whiny liberals in bad modern buildings scarcely distinguishable from their secular liberal counterparts in NOW or the Sierra Club. Imagine what the Church in America would be like minus the St. Patrick's cathedrals if it was entirely designed by Weaklandesque iconoclasts. Without the pre-Vatican II legacy, Catholic liberals are nothing. No one will read the ravings of Richard McBrien or Maureen Fiedler a hundred years from now, but the writings of Aquinas, Augustine, and Newman will still inspire faithful Catholics.

12 posted on 05/06/2002 1:15:40 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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