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Old ways die hard
US News and World Report ^ | Web exclusive 4/19/02 | By Michael Barone

Posted on 04/29/2002 10:50:37 AM PDT by vannrox

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1 posted on 04/29/2002 10:50:37 AM PDT by vannrox
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To: vannrox
Bttt. Got rope?
2 posted on 04/29/2002 10:57:54 AM PDT by meadsjn
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To: vannrox
Corruption is the norm in the Latino ethic. This should not be a surprise.

It's not a coincidence that South American officials are some of the most corrupt in the world (of course, being that they are politicians....that's not saying much)

3 posted on 04/29/2002 10:58:01 AM PDT by zarf
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To: vannrox
This can't be true. The open borders crowd say they assimilate.
4 posted on 04/29/2002 11:05:11 AM PDT by A Navy Vet
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To: zarf
"Corruptions is the norm in the latino ethic?"

Are you really a de-barred attorney with eight marijuana convictions?

Quite a credential for an expert on corruption.

5 posted on 04/29/2002 11:08:20 AM PDT by AzJP
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To: AzJP
Very good AzJP. Sheesh! V's wife.
6 posted on 04/29/2002 11:18:09 AM PDT by ventana
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To: vannrox
Here are three personal examples of bi-lingual education.

My ultra-liberal sister lives in the wine country of Kalifornia and there are lots of migrant workers whose kids go to school up there. She thought having my nephew in a bi-lingual class would help him learn Spanish when he first started school. She said that at the end of the year, the spanish-speaking kids spoke only spanish and hung out together and the english-speaking kids spoke only english and hung out together. Each group learned little, if any, of the other language.

Seems to me that learning the language of the country you're living in will be a huge advantage to these kids. When my son was in kindergarten, a little boy came from Japan in January and spoke no english at all. At the end of the school year, he spoke perfect english with no accent and played with all the kids.

This year my son is in 3rd grade and a little girl from Japan started the year not speaking any english. The japanese boy from his kndergarten class has been helping her and she now speaks perfect english with no accent.

7 posted on 04/29/2002 11:28:06 AM PDT by TMD
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To: vannrox
Every liberal is a child-abusing thug.
8 posted on 04/29/2002 11:36:15 AM PDT by moyden
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To: vannrox
"How would you feel if you were told that your kindergartner was assigned to a classroom in which instruction is given entirely in Spanish, even though he doesn't understand a word of the language? "

If I had smuggled myself and my kids into Mexico City, and they didn't speak Spanish, I would probably be very afraid that the Mexican police would catch and deport us !
... or deport them and jail me !

9 posted on 04/29/2002 11:45:42 AM PDT by RS
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To: AzJP
Pot smoking is a personal thing. Payoffs and bribery are of a different order......par for the course in the Latin business community.

I would defend the rights of anyone who chooses to use substances in their own homes.

10 posted on 04/29/2002 11:48:10 AM PDT by zarf
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To: TMD
Little ones learn languages quickly and that's the way it should work. I heard of one play school which had kids speaking at least three languages at the beginning of the year and each kid was tri-lingual at the end of the year.

No favors are done for Spanish speakers by keeping them in Spanish only classes. They can learn English easily and quickly by "total immersion". Likewise, they can be a benefit for English only speakers who are immersed in Spanish classes. There is lemonade to be made here.

11 posted on 04/29/2002 11:49:43 AM PDT by DeFault User
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To: AzJP
The logical fallacy demonstrated by your response is ad hominem, an attack against the person rather than the position.

I doubt you will find any serious scholar or person who would dispute the fact that corruption, especially petty corruption in everyday life, is endemic in Latin America, part of the woof and warp of the culture. It is not endemic in North America above the Rio Grande, nor is it endemic in Scandanavia, the British Isles, the Low Countries, German or Switzerland, and perhaps France and Austria. Japan is not corrupt. Italy and Spain are notoriously corrupt, as are the Balkan countries. Indeed, once you leave my short list of countries, corruption is more the rule than the exception.

12 posted on 04/29/2002 11:51:01 AM PDT by CatoRenasci
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To: zarf
It's not a coincidence that South American officials are some of the most corrupt in the world .....

They have learned well from their North American cousins ;-)

13 posted on 04/29/2002 11:54:11 AM PDT by varon
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To: CatoRenasci
The logical fallacy you employ is one of sweeping generalization. If the socialism of Scandinavia, the introduction of communism in Russia and its grip on much of eastern Europe, as well as the rise of every kind of union to power under the aegis of the democratic party in the good ole USA isn't indicative that graft and corruption are equal opportunity employers, I don't know what is.V's wife.
14 posted on 04/29/2002 11:59:43 AM PDT by ventana
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To: TMD
Sounds like your sister is in Healdsburg.

In our Greenwich, Connecticut schools we have had many Japanese kids as well as some Hispanics. The Japanese kids almost all learn English within a year, and many of them integrate very well. The ones here for high school do well and most have as many American friends as Japanese. They move in what one might describe as 'normal' student circles: not the most elite or athletic cliques, but not as loners or outcasts. The Hispanics tend to have difficulty in school, with English and generally, and to limit their social integration to groups known locally as "ghetto," primarily black and hispanic kids (and white gangsta wannabes) who engage in socially unacceptable behaviors concerning drugs, sex, dress, smoking, scholastic achievement (or lack thereof), etc.

15 posted on 04/29/2002 12:01:57 PM PDT by CatoRenasci
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To: ventana
Generalizations? Sure, one can hardly do otherwise here on FR. Sweeping or unjustified generalization? I think not.

I pointedly left Eastern Europe and Russia off my list, as they are rather corrupt societies.

While I agree with you about the corrupting effects of socialism on the soul and the body politic, my experience has been an almost total absense of personal corruption in Norway, Denmark and Sweden. Although few of them are believing Lutherans anymore, the personal rectititude of the Protestant ethic still seems pervasive.

16 posted on 04/29/2002 12:05:54 PM PDT by CatoRenasci
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To: CatoRenasci
Let me be more specific. IMHO, when an attorney is admitted to a state bar, that attorney declares adherence to the laws of that state. At least in the states I know.

An attorney with eight strikes of a relatively simple type does not convey to me a strong posture of conforming to the bahavior standards of that community.

If ya' don't like the rules, don't raise your right hand taking allegiance, and then go out and break 'em, often. If you wanna' do your own thing, cool, but I don't have much respect for talking one way and walking another.

If that fits your ad hominem, so be it. If my assessment of the lawyer's background is accurate, I still question his standards of measuring ethics.

On your geographic examples, I've traveled enough to think that none of your groupings are monolithic. Exceptions at all extremes, very flat bell-curves.

Personally, I've got business partners, family friends, three generations, spread over much of northern Mexico. The mutual trust is monumental.

To me "endemic" etc. is not a basis for a group generalization. Opining a trait as endemic is not the same as ascribing a trait to the entire generalized group.

IMHO

17 posted on 04/29/2002 12:13:53 PM PDT by AzJP
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To: varon
Oh yes, and made it a fine art!!

Actually you can trace it back to the Spanish. Spain did quite a bit of damage as it cut it's colonial swath through South, Central and North America.

18 posted on 04/29/2002 12:14:08 PM PDT by zarf
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To: CatoRenasci
No personal corruption there? Ha, they lead the way in euthanasia, teen suicide, they have had overt acceptance of pornagraphy for years. They have incredibly high divorce rates. When they are not divorcing they are cohabitating and bearing huge numbers of out of wedlock babies. They have virtually no church attendance thus the only social good done on an organzized basis comes through the state, and, well, you know how that goes. Child porn has been a much bigger problem there for years (in Scandinavia). You could hardly call them innovative societies( well, ok there's Nokia). They are big nanny states, yechhh! V's wife.
19 posted on 04/29/2002 12:14:11 PM PDT by ventana
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To: zarf
It also got the natives to stop those charming practices like live human sacrifice with the ritual cutting of the hearts out. Yes, those Spanish, savages. V's wife.
20 posted on 04/29/2002 12:15:24 PM PDT by ventana
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