Russia s Expulsion of Bishop Assailed by Vatican: "Grave Violation" of Religious Rights

Zenit.org ^ | 2002-04-21 | Zenit.org

[weikel]

Don't think hes a communist he may at worst in his own mind see himself as "Emperor Putin and Tsar of all the Russias" but his actions lately shows me hes a "pure" capitalist not like the mixed economy socialist we have in the Republican party here( with the exception of Phil Gramm who is leaving and a few others) or the outright communist in the Demonrat party.

[monday]

"I know that it is simple to mock an unknown face with the words on a keyboard "

Whether you take offence or not is up to you, it was certainly not my intention. My only point is if you think that this is religous persecution, then you lead a very sheltered life, and I hope for your sake you never have to experience the real thing.

[BellStar]

Much like the Church of England, the Russian Orthodox Church enjoys State Sponsorship. All others are seen as interlopers.

[BellStar]

witness the recent media circus and apparent rampant pedophilia. I think the Catholics will be in much better hands soon.

Not here. This is a spin free zone! Older homosexual Priest looking for a sweet young "Teen" are "Acting Out Homosexuals" not pedophiles!

[Stavka2]

He also rejected Judism because the Khazars were his neighbors,enemies, competition and converted Jews.

[Stavka2]

The 13% rate is the traditional Russian rate, from the times of the Tsars. He is simply returning Russia to its past.

[weikel]

Really interesting thanks for the historical info I know before the damned Bolsheviks screwed up everything the Russian economy was growing faster than America's( and its about to start doing so again with the Russian Government privatizing everything and lower taxes plus the vast land and natural resources of Russia).

[F16Fighter]

Wasn't there a patron saint that was fired? Was it the patron saint of travel, St. Joseph(?)...Maybe he was too involved in the children's aspirin factory...

[Domestic Church]

Last week the Russian Duma failed to halt a motion asking President Vladimir Putin to close the four Catholic dioceses recently created by John Paul II. The motion states the "activity of the Catholic Church in Russia must be prohibited because it represents a threat to Russia´s integrity," given its alleged intent "to impose its will on our people" as if the country were "a spiritual desert."

So the Duma passed a motion asking Putin to close the 4 new Dioceses as a threat to Russia's integrity. Why didn't we see this news ahead of the action?

Doesn't anyone from the press watch the Duma? Is the Duma shuttered to the press corp? How about the Russian press? Did they cover this in the Duma? I do think that this was done now to utilize the Catholic crisis to covertly move back to old style (USSR) relations with the Vatican and the manner in which it was done harkens back too.

The government there must still have strong control over the Russian Church from the inside and sees Catholicism as an independent threat to nip in the bud. Now I wonder what else is covertly reverting back to the USSR there.

[history_matters]

If they placed it in a catholic church, that would be an insult to the Russian Orthodox.

It would at least be in Russia and not in the hands of the once and future KGB agents in the Moscow Patriarchate. Perhaps the ikon should be given to the Ecumenical Patriarch in Constantinople. Yes, the more I think about that, the more excellent that idea sounds.

BTW I'm not sure it's true that the icon is in Rome just because that one link says so. The story went that it got sneaked out of Fatima and somehow Bishop Hnilica was involved, but that could just be a rumor.

The ikon was still in Fatima when we were last there. I had never heard or read that it had been "snuck out" to Rome, and I try to keep up on anything connected to Our Lady of Fatima.

[Diago]

Bump for further review later.

[Domestic Church]

"...hes decommunizing it fast its less socialist then we are now."

No, he's not decommunizing, he is reorganizing the power structure...when he starts letting the population buy land then he is decommunizing....things aren't what they seem there at all. Putin is a good chess player,lol.

[weikel]

I think the Duma has passed the private land ownership law recently.

[history_matters]

The rival claims to membership are highly dubious. Patriarch Filaret (not of the Moscow Patriarch) may or may not have the largest numbers when one considers that the Moscow Patriarchate may be counting as members those who were forced to become Orthodox under the Communists and have since returned to the Catholic Church. Much to Patriarch Aleksy II's anger and distress, the Catholic Ukrainians have reclaimed their properties which were siezed by the Communists and given to the Moscow patriarchate (where there were ample KGB to monitor and direct everything).

Nonetheless, the Patriarch Aleksy II has been working around the globe to sieze the property of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia (ROCOR). He has succeeded in taking from ROCOR some properties in the Holy Land and elsewhere.

[Domestic Church]

Thanks for the info...it certainly wasn't well publicized (don't recall it hitting the breaking news column.) Are there any threads here on it? I'd like to look at the details of what the duma has passed.

[FormerLib]

I notice the reference to Sakhalin Island has been completely removed from this story (at least it was mentioned in previous stories). This action was completely initiated by the Russian Foreign Ministry. There is no evidence of any connection to the Russian Orthodox Church.

I believe that this is just another piece in the propaganda war against the Russian Orthodox faith.

[FormerLib]

It would appear that the Orthodox Church is shaking in its boots over a mere 600,000 Catholics. Poor babies. They collaborated with the Communists before, so collaborating with a communist like Putin to keep others out should be old hat for them.

Sure, sling mud without any proof. That's a very Christian way to act and will go a long way to healing the rift between the two faiths.

I really thought you knew better.

[weikel]

I remember it somewhere ask Stavka2 he'll be able to find the ifo better than I can.

[Domestic Church]

"So I guess the Catholic church is not intent on proselytizing....that must be why the headline to the last link I posted says - "The conversion of Russia". "

As a cradle Catholic, I recall praying for the conversion of Russia from communism back to the Christian Orthodoxy that was it's heritage. We never prayed for the conversion of Russia to Catholicism per se...there has always been a deep understanding and respect (and a deep love too) of the Orthodox as the standard bearer of Christianity in Russia. The idea of conversion of the Orthodox is absurd. It is such a shame to see the disrespect bubbling up on both sides. Instead of being a threat, the Byzantine rites of Catholicism should be seen as a potential for greater understanding and dialogue between the two. Perhaps the Pope is just waiting for an invite so he can return the Icon.

[patent]

A long way toward healing the rift? You mean like one of your Archbishops (Evsevii) describing Catholics as offensive to our people and requesting (to Putin) that they not have freedom of action in Russia? You mean like your Patriarch opposing so much as the formation of Catholic dioceses to administer to the Catholics in Russia, when you have all the structure you want in Western lands? It also seem the Orthodox viewpoint on this has more then a little political pull, given the actions in the Duma over this.

Sorry, I'm a bit tired to the double standards and all the recent anti-Catholic actions by both the Orthodox Church and the Russian Government. Recall that all of this comes so close on the heels of the creation of four new Catholic dioceses earlier this year. The Russian Orthodox Church bitterly opposed the creation of those dioceses, charging that the Catholic Church is a foreign influence interfering in the "canonical territory" of the Russian Orthodox Church.

You can claim there is no connection, but if the Patriarch came out against it, it would stop. Have we heard from him on the expulsions? Have we heard from him on the Church construction they forced to stop? No.