Russia s Expulsion of Bishop Assailed by Vatican: "Grave Violation" of Religious Rights

Zenit.org ^ | 2002-04-21 | Zenit.org

[A. Pole]

And finally he could choose traveling companions to Ukraine other than Ziggy Brezinski, a known Russophobe.

Wow, are you sure? It is hard to believe, the Pope taking with him this warmonger Zbigniew Brzezinski?! If it is true it is depressing.

[Aliska]

I've known but one orthodox in my life. Also I visited that Albanian Orthodox church in Chicago when the icon cried (the tears had dried up by the time I got there).

If the icon belongs to the Russian people, the pope ought to return it quietly and promptly. That would be the right thing to do IMHO. No photo-ops. No visits. Just return the icon. I hope its not about the money.

[Aliska]

The catholic church does not proselytize in the normal sense. But you must know that perhaps millions of rosaries have been prayed for the conversion of Russia. I've prayed quite a few myself in the past. Now you've got me wondering about all this.

[history_matters]

We we prayed and pray those rosaries:

"The Conversion of Russia" is something Catholics have prayed for since 1917 -- it is an essential element of the apparitions of the Holy Mother of God at Fatima, Portugal. It is directed not against the Russian Orthodox faithful -- farthest from -- but it was a prayer against Communist Russia, atheism, and all the errors of Marxism, Leninism and Stalinism.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

I have much respect for the Orthodox tradition and if I could not be Catholic that would be the first place I would go. I hear the pain and suspicion which Orthodox' feel towards the Western Church. But many of these things are in the past. These are old wounds. If Russia is going to become a democracy and create ties all over the world then they are going to have to understand they will encounter all religious types. That's the nature of an open society. People are free to make choices. If their Orthodox faith is strong then there should be no worries. Catholics face a similar challenge as the Orthodox do in dealing with aggressive denominations. We both could use some religious self-defense classes. Would you rather co-exist with Catholics or Jehovah Witnesses, fundamentalists and Muslims?

[A. Pole]

Third, there are no less than three Orthodox Churches claiming Ukraine of which 2 do not recognize any authority of Moscow over Ukraine.

But the one which is a part of Russian Church is the one which has the majority of believers (despite the persecution from the government) and which is recognised by the other Orthodox churches as the only legitimate.

I cannot believe that the Pope brought Zbigniew Brzezinski with him over there.

[history_matters]

The ikon of Our Lady of Kazan was smuggled out of Russia to keep it from being destroyed by Communists and also to keep it out of the hands of Communist/KGB agents who had infiltrated the clergy of the Russian Orthodox Church.

If it were up to me, the ikon of Our Lady of Kazan would be placed in the Catholic Church of Our Lady of Fatima in St. Petersburg, Russia.

[history_matters]

As I recall Zbigniew B. has a family connection to Ukraine.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

Perhaps the Pope is afraid the Communists have not been purged from the Orthodox there and is afraid to return it? We know he does have personal experience with Communism.

[history_matters]

There have been many accusations and denials regarding the Russian Patriarch's activities during the Soviet era. This link gives the accusation which the Russian Orthodox Church has vigorously denied.

[patent]

Man, this is getting bad. It would appear that the Orthodox Church is shaking in its boots over a mere 600,000 Catholics. Poor babies. They collaborated with the Communists before, so collaborating with a communist like Putin to keep others out should be old hat for them.

patent

[weikel]

Putin Advisor Extols Ayn Rand. That combined with him privatizing everything and the 13% flat tax means combined with him privatizing everything including the space program means hes decommunizing it fast its less socialist then we are now.

[Aliska]

If they placed it in a catholic church, that would be an insult to the Russian Orthodox.

BTW I'm not sure it's true that the icon is in Rome just because that one link says so. The story went that it got sneaked out of Fatima and somehow Bishop Hnilica was involved, but that could just be a rumor.

[weikel]

Well a 13% flat tax is definitely less socialist and better than the taxes we have now.

[MarMema]

I cannot believe that the Pope brought Zbigniew Brzezinski with him over there

ZBIGNIEW BRZEZINSKI TO ACCOMPANY POPE TO UKRAINE
by Dmitry Safonov
strana.ru, 2 May 2001

here

[dalebert]

There is probably more to this story. There are good churches all over the world but the Vatican has always reminded me of the mafia.

[MarMema]

Ziggy once said - now that the soviet union has collapsed, the only remaining enemy of America/the west is the Orthodox church.

[MarMema]

Yes, many good churches and many good catholics.
But this pope is far too wordly and political to be very good. And it is my personal belief that the catholic church is failing to thrive and even attracting evil under this pope - witness the recent media circus and apparent rampant pedophilia. I think the catholics will be in much better hands soon.